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Distillery Steam Questions...

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WigglyWalker
WigglyWalker Member Posts: 28
in Strictly Steam
Installing a peerless sc-st-06. Have looked around and read post from this site and a distilling site for the past month, so I have learned a ton about what to do and not to do, with that being said I have also learned that I am comfortably uncomfortable with my plan of attack so far.

First off we own the boiler already...

We will be heating:
- 250 Gallon Cook kettle (Direct Steam with eductor nozzle) 40-50' from boiler.
- 250 Gallon stripping still (Direct Steam with eductor nozzle) 30' from boiler.
- 100 Gallon Finishing still ( 25' 1" Copper Coil) 15' from boiler.

Heat up time is a factor.

I am just looking for insight from the steam wizards. I haven't seen much about steam mains or running separate zones for each appliance. I am planning on coming off the 4" main with 2" to feed each appliance. The other thing I am iffy on is the return for the 100 gallon still, would i need a trap for that? I guess i am not sure what types of check valves or traps i would need.

I understand the this boiler isn't ideal for process steam and also understand that getting 3-5 years out of this might be a reality. I plan on coming through the coil to preheat the feed water and then reducing the pressure and installing a spirovent prior to entering the boiler in hope to remove as much air as possible.

any insight is appreciated

Comments

  • Sailah
    Sailah Member Posts: 826
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    We were called up by these guys to help diagnose issues with their steam system and offer advice.

    http://bostonharbordistillery.com/

    I know they were having vacuum issues in their kettles. I never did find out what was going on as our traps were functioning well and I even changed a couple out to new ones and tested the old ones. They had other issues I believe.

    But I'd be happy to introduce you to the owner if you think it might be helpful in getting your system up and running.
    Peter Owens
    SteamIQ
    WigglyWalker
  • WigglyWalker
    WigglyWalker Member Posts: 28
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    I will never turn down information.
  • JStar
    JStar Member Posts: 2,752
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    Any spec sheets on the appliances?
    WigglyWalker
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,534
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    What about elevations? Are the stills and kettle on the same level as the boiler?
    Retired and loving it.
    WigglyWalker
  • WigglyWalker
    WigglyWalker Member Posts: 28
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    The boiler room is 20" below the still room, as far as specs for equipment I need 19lb of steam per hour at 10psi. I am using one 3/4 eductor http://www.nciweb.net/eductor_tla_heater.htm

    The stills I have made myself, and can raise off the ground if needed. The cook kettle is the same as the still but I am only heating about 100 gallons of water to a boil.

    The spirt still is the one that is tricky because I need to worry about condensate. Not sure if I need a trap or not.
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,534
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    Too bad they're not on the second floor. The condensate won't be able to return by gravity with just 20" of elevation. You'll need a boiler-feed pump and steam traps on the stills where you're bringing back condensate. You may also need a flash tank to protect the boiler-feed pump from 240-degree condensate.

    You'll also need vacuum breakers between the control valve and each still so air can get in and break vacuum when the control valve closes. Without these, condensate won't drain and you'll get lots of water hammer when the control valve reopens.
    Retired and loving it.
    WigglyWalker
  • Sailah
    Sailah Member Posts: 826
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    At Boston harbor distillery they had to use a steam powered condensate pump because of the explosion hazard with an electrical pump. It was in a pit right next to the still.

    Wiggly, send me an email and I'll introduce you to the owner.
    Peter Owens
    SteamIQ
  • WigglyWalker
    WigglyWalker Member Posts: 28
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    ok so what we have is....

    Boiler with 4" header, i was planning on having a manifold in the boiler room to feed each appliance with 2", but after looking more i am not sure if it would make more sense to have a 2" main line just drop down and feed each unit.

    as far as a pump and tank i figured i would be using .62 GPM @ 5 min I would need a 3.1 gal tank and a 1.24 GPM pump? Not sure which brand of tank/pump is recommended or who i would talk to about that.


    Some of my calculations:
    8.96 BHP
    309 Lbs/Per HR @ 212*
    .62 GPM
    1250 SqFt Head?
    PSI loss with 100' of 2" sch 40 = .04 @ 56.4 Ft/Sec ?


  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,534
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    I think you need a boiler-feed pump, with a pump controller on the boiler to start and stop the pump. The receiver would need be large enough to hold the returning condensate until the boiler needs it. You also have to be sure that you have a way to vent air from the system. The boiler-feed pump's receiver is open to atmosphere, and that's usually the vent, but you have to be sure your return piping slopes down toward it, with no places where it can create a water seal. Air won't vent through a water seal. If you can't get the right pitch, you'll have to provide main vents at the outlets of each still.
    Retired and loving it.
    Dan_NJ
  • WigglyWalker
    WigglyWalker Member Posts: 28
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    Been up and running for 3 years, thanks for all the help!








  • SeanBeans
    SeanBeans Member Posts: 520
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    that had to have been a fun install
    WigglyWalkerW3DLB
  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 1,146
    edited July 2018
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    I like the fact that long pipe wrenches were used to put the header together. Did you rent the pipe wrenches and a pipe vice to the work?

    Would you mind posting more pictures of the still house with the piping and valves that you are using on the kettles?

  • WigglyWalker
    WigglyWalker Member Posts: 28
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    Amazon for the wrenches, only have used them for this Job and once for something else. I didn’t need the length of a 4’ wrench I needed the jaw opening for the 4” header.

    I don’t have pictures on my phone of the still piping but all I used a 2” main to feed two stills and a cook kettle. At the end of the steam main I used a f&t trap. Branching off of the 2” mains I used 1” to feed each “appliance”. The cook kettle is direct steam injection so there wasn’t a condensate return. The two still I used the same setup as the steam main trap. I’ll try to post a picture

    Are you starting a distillery?
  • WigglyWalker
    WigglyWalker Member Posts: 28
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    Here’s what I have, this was my first steam job so I know there are a few improvements I could have done.
  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 1,146
    edited July 2018
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    Hello WigglyWalker,

    I looked at buying a legal still system to boil corn to make ethanol for fuel to be used in my home heating system. If I can no longer manage my coal stoker boiler. I will probably do that if I can afford it.




  • WigglyWalker
    WigglyWalker Member Posts: 28
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    Update on the system, I’ve added a few valves near the pressuretrols because they were getting clogged and I have had to replace a few nipples around the condensate return piping, about every year they get pin hole around the threading. Do you need a Hartford loop when using a condensate return pump? My guess is that the entry point of the condensate is just above the water level and is just rusting out. Any thoughts? It I can’t change the design I might just go stainless piping.
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,705
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    I would say one never needs a Hartford Loop, but especially in your case as you will notice any leak far before they become catastrophic. Your situation is not in a home's basement not being looked at for weeks or months. I would say you can definitely move it below your water line. Beware: amateur-hour opinion

    When I was reading your thread and your concerns about the boiler life the question that came to my mind was "if fresh makeup water is a concern due to its harmful effects on the boiler, can't a base be added to it to bring the ph to a safe range?

    But then it seems that your biggest problem for rust is in the condensate side. Interestingly, this was the same for my residential boiler. My return parts (nipples in and near the Hartford Loop) are what rotted out first.

    Are you using thin Schedule 40 nipples? You might try the heavy duty schedule 80 domestic ones or of course SS as you said, unless the different metal junctions exacerbate your rot problem.

    Curious-- have you seen any sign of rotting in the boiler itself?
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • WigglyWalker
    WigglyWalker Member Posts: 28
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    The boiler seems fine, and it is really only this section between the pump and equalizer. I have had to change some piping out for equipment upgrades and both the steam and condensate lines look great.
    ethicalpaul
  • WigglyWalker
    WigglyWalker Member Posts: 28
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    One of the nipples 3/4”
    ethicalpaul
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,866
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    As far as rusting out get Made In USA Steel, that Chinese crap it CRAP!

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