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Wholesaler/Contractor Relation
Steverino
Member Posts: 140
Joel, you & everyone else are absolutely right about this. Have you asked your supplier about stocking parts for what they sell? If they don't, why don't they? They want to sell a multi-thousand dollar boiler but no parts? Pumps, impellers, couplers, bearing assemblies, pressuretrols, vents...these are everyday items! Gas valves, ignitors, ignition modules, etc. If they sell the boiler line why not the "everyday parts" that fail on their boiler line? Seriously. Ask your salesperson about this...I'm curious.
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Comments
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Supply House/Contractor Relation
What do expect from your supply house ?0 -
Interesting...
I Expect them to not sell to res customers and even worse, let them know pricing.......I may be out of line, but that is what happens in Buffalo, NY. Not a lot, mind you, but even once is to much for me. I also expect a well stocked parts/equipment stand by, friendly attitude,....That's a must and over all just cooperation......I also want them to bust their A** to get me what I need, Besides,..I am paying them. That's what my customers want and I expect no less.....:-)
Mike T.0 -
Mike
nailed it. They sell to anyone and then ask "where have you been lately"
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have the parts available
They go on and on about the brands they selling and then hide with tail up in their butt when they don't have repair parts available or want to take the time to get the CORRECT parts...0 -
Supply House Service
Service is becoming almost non-existant in our "Supply House" world today.
A short story that is still stinging in my mind...
Last Saturday night I personally ran a service call for no hot water that required a specific part for an Amtrol indirect to repair.
Monday morning first thing I ordered said part after looking up the part number myself using the manufacturer's on-line resources. The "Supply House" had no supply of said part. No big deal, weekend house, owners are not due back until the weekend, please order the part.
Two days should be sufficient for said part to arrive from RI to NY. Wednesday comes and goes, no part. Still no part today (Thursday). When I ask about all of this I get excuses, blame placed on others and no straight answers from anyone involved. I am offered to have it shipped overnight with no charge to me.....BUT, I now have to fit this service call into an already busy Friday schedule when I should have had it done already.
Similar stories can be repeated over and over by Contractors about any number of so-called 'Supply Houses'. I know I have had the same thing happen before at this and other suppliers.
IT SHOULD NOT BE THIS DIFFICULT to get a part for a common, still in production, simple indirect water heater.
Ranting done, for now.
-Jared M
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you're
askin' too much Jared0 -
I expect them to be just that... A wholesale and a supply house. To me wholesale doesn't mean retail. I am the retailer. That is how I make my money. When they sell to the HO and cut me out of the deal they become the competition. And why should I buy from the competition.
Second they need to be a supply house. Otherwise I should be able to go straight to the rep for my products. If they carry a boiler that I buy on a regular basis they need to carry parts. Or if they sell a particular control they need to have them in stock atleast in one of their stores, so that part can be brought in on a days notice.0 -
Supply House
I work at a supply house and understand your concerns. I hope to give you some insight as to our inner workings. Unless your supply house is primarily designed for heating they're going to carry many different products, and you're likely speaking to someone who has little to no knowledge about water/steam systems, but has some knowledge on everything inside their building. The trick is to find a person that has done a good job for you in the past and stick with that person.
Your supply house likely stocks multiple boiler lines and multiple boiler models...that equals a lot of parts, especially parts for boilers that are no longer in production (it's difficult to carry everything all the time). Yes, sometimes we're out of stock of an obvious part (it is the heating season and, hopefully, we have multiple heating customers that simply bought us out in the last day or so).
Jared mentioned that he looked up a part # and gave that information to his supply house, you have no idea how much this is appreciated on our end. This more often than not is the exception however. We're the ones to find the part number for our customers...THAT'S OUR JOB! That IS why you pay us! We always appreciate your help.
Mistakes are made, but there's no excuse for not receiving a part in 1-2 days. Raise heck with the supplier.
It would be nice if we all had a passion for some part of our end of the business (mine happens to be water & steam), but I deal with all product lines and types that you'd find in the supply business, not just heating.
I've been reading Dan's website for a couple years now and appreciate the knowledge that all of you are willing to share. With what I've learned over those years, along with reading as much as I can, it makes my job so much easier when I understand what it is that you're asking for when you call me. Anyone in the supply business can order a part for you, but what does that part do & why? That's where the passion comes into play.0 -
Supply houses?
Ok now I'm going to make some guys I know mad in the Transfer House buisness and I don't really care because I'm sick of it.I'm sick of How horendous the service has become it is the worst it has ever been.
There are very few true supply houses today one of the few is Capco in Mass.
The rest that try to sell to us are not a supply house and are not worthy of calling themselves by that name.
I call them Transfer Houses because they do not stock what I need and what I need are PARTS on the SHELF RIGHT NOW!!!! . Not 3 weeks later or even 3 days later.They want to order the stuff and have it shipped in then UPS it to us. I frequently tell them to UPS it direct to us to speed it up.Why should they get a cut for doing absolutly NOTHING let me go on line and order the parts direct it would probably be faster.
They don't want to stock anything!! They say they are for the contractor but for many of them that is an outright lie. If that is true then why do they keep adding bigger and bigger showrooms to sell to Consumers??? They should be adding more space for PARTS because everything is becoming more and more unique to the manufacturer.
I am sick and tired of salesman coming in here trying to get me to buy from them when I have a bigger parts room than they do.
I've got 1 supplier that sells several different brands of Modcons and tries to get me to buy from them problem is they do not have parts for ANY of them. how could they ever support all those brands. They should pick one brand and fully support it. We needed a simple Utica sparker yesterday and gas valve. This particular Tranfer house has sold thousands of these boilers they had none of the parts. Worst still even with the part numbers given to them they couldn't help us they didn't even know what it was!!.
Got another supplier that i called today for a price on a Rinnai that the sales guy told me they sell "all the time" Really??? then how come nobody in your office knows what I'm talking about and I'm on hold 10 minutes for a price Hello???
Or how bout the 95% 2 stage ECM motor furnace that was the best thing since sliced bread. Untill the motor broke and we where told it would take 3 WEEKS????? to get the motor. Exscuse me but when it's 5 degrees out I've got about 3HRS to fix that before pipes break and I get sued not 3 weeks. They should have all the common parts for that furnace gas valves , inducer , ignitor, blower motor computer modules on the shelf.
All of these are problems from just this week I could go on and on.
Now when I call Capco I get someone on the phone that knows what i'm talking about because they educate thier counter people. They also stock the boilers they just don't run out to the distributor 4 days later and pick it up for me. They have lots of parts for what they sell on the shelf.
You want the 500K$-700K$ I'm spending this year on Supplies Mr Transfer house? We pay on time every month by the way, fast enough to get the 2% discount. You want that acount Mr Salesman? no problem go to Capco for a week and copy what they do and then we can talk.
right now I honestly have NO idea what brand of Gas furnace to sell and install ,because NONE of the local Transfer houses have parts. We used to sell York thu Heat Inc which was an excelent place . It was sold and went down the tubes , too bad they where profitable because they really tried hard to support us . They had parts for almost everything they sold going back 10-15 years. The new owners ditchted that and the good service in general and suddenly their sales dissapeared , what did they think was going to happen???
Sory so long but I've had lots of headaches created by transfer houses this week and I'm venting big time.
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A distributor prospective
All you guys have good points however here is the side of the wholesale distributor:
1. We try to stock parts (at least we do) however, manufacturers change theirs so often that sometimes it is hard to know when and keep up.
2. We as distributors are constantly asked for lower prices and often sold out over $1-$3 on an item. Next time ask yourselves if you are a customer that does this and perhaps it just that we are tired of this and choose to serve other customers better.
3. The "contractor" is less willing to invest in his future today by way of knowledge and training thus, we are subjected to additional work all while the operating expenses are climbing and profit margins are shrinking.
4. If you could approach our counter professionally and know what you want rather than waste our time with "defectives" that you missapplied or burned out due to lack of knowledge and patience with regards to reading and understanding the install manual would be a pleasent change0 -
Here's your answers.
1. That's easy stock parts for what you sold us the last several years . when your sales guys bring in the cut sheets from your manufacturer on the new stuff ask that manufacturer for a parts list and stock everything on it, problem solved.
2. Price is equated with value , stock the parts , get the deliveries out on time and complete and the price will become immaterial.
3. Then take care of the contractors who know what they are doing. For instance I see Transfer house guys buried with heat losses to do . You do them and those guys then shop your plans and material list . Why do you do it?? This should be the responsability of the contractor. Many folks contact you looking for contractors start a referal service but only refer those of us who come for training and are your loyal buyers.
4. Again don't waste your time on those guys make them go away . Give them a higher price than those of us who make your life simple , refuse to do thier heat losses or don't hand them over until they give you a deposit. Defectives have always been a problem I don't have a clue what to do about that??
But it goes both ways when I call your counter guy and ask for something other than a white toilet and basic faucet and i do have the model and serial numbers I don't want to here crickets on the other end of the phone.
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I couldn't disagree more
>>1. We try to stock parts ....<<
OUr wholesalers do a horrible job in stocking parts. I live/work in NY State, we have a lot of hydronics here. This same wholesaler that I spoke of has had a certain boiler line continuously since the 50's. They no longer stock common parts for gas boilers made in the 80s and 90s! There are literally thousands of them in my market area. I am forced to stock these parts, and I do.
>>2. We as distributors are constantly asked for lower prices and often sold out over $1-$3 on an item. <<
Sorry, that's BS. Stop pandering to those bottom feeders. These are the same guys that stiff you for money, demand your resources for heat loss calcs and need constant hand-holding and technical support.
>>3. The "contractor" is less willing to invest in his future today by way of knowledge and training...<<
Again, those are the bottom feeders. We weed them out in our business, you should too. Stop selling to them and stop supporting them, let them flounder in the aisles of Home Depot! And you think you are the only ones feeling pressure at your bottom line?
>>4. If you could approach our counter professionally and know what you want rather than waste our time with "defectives" that you missapplied or burned out due to lack of knowledge and patience with regards to reading and understanding the install manual would be a pleasent change To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
Capco
Joel, your right, that's why Capco gets 90% of my business now.
They even stock Runtals, Tekmar, Buderus, Viessmann, Viega, Danfoss, Oventrop, Unico all on the shelves. Plus great new products that help the hydronic pro.
And to the wholesaler: I pay what Capco wants because they are worth it. They help me make my business better. They are not a supply house, but more like a partner.
If your in Eastern Ma, check out www.capcosupply.com
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I want supply houses to treat me with the same level of professionalism that I treat my customers with.
- Norm
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Supply House
> __1. We try to stock parts ....__ OUr
> wholesalers do a horrible job in stocking parts.
> I live/work in NY State, we have a lot of
> hydronics here. This same wholesaler that I
> spoke of has had a certain boiler line
> continuously since the 50's. They no longer
> stock common parts for gas boilers made in the
> 80s and 90s! There are literally thousands of
> them in my market area. I am forced to stock
> these parts, and I do.
>
> __2. We as distributors
> are constantly asked for lower prices and often
> sold out over $1-$3 on an item. __ Sorry, that's
> BS. Stop pandering to those bottom feeders.
> These are the same guys that stiff you for money,
> demand your resources for heat loss calcs and
> need constant hand-holding and technical support.
> __3. The "contractor" is less willing to invest
> in his future today by way of knowledge and
> training...__ Again, those are the bottom
> feeders. We weed them out in our business, you
> should too. Stop selling to them and stop
> supporting them, let them flounder in the aisles
> of Home Depot! And you think you are the only
> ones feeling pressure at your bottom
> line?
>
> __4. If you could approach our counter
> professionally and know what you want rather than
> waste our time with "defectives" that you
> missapplied or burned out due to lack of
> knowledge and patience with regards to reading
> and understanding the install manual would be a
> pleasent change __ Couldn't agree more, stop
> wasting your time with these guys, show them the
> door. There are some contractors that don't
> behave this way. Really, there are.
>
> -Jared
> M
>
>
>
> _A
> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=
> 451&Step=30"_To Learn More About This
> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in
> "Find A Professional"_/A_
Okay, Okay, there are many supply houese that sell to home owners and do not carry all parts for equipment they carry. As a contractor this makes me mad. But as a businessman I understand it some what.
First, how many of you have a show room for your customers to go and look at? Many plumbing/heating companies direct thier customers to supply house/showroom stores. Then when the customer picks out what they want some contractors tell they that "IT'S GOING TO COST YOU ALOT OF MONEY" you would be better of getting the cheaper brand, you know like the one at Home Depot. Ask yourselves one question, if the plumbier/ heating company installs it shouldn't they have a showroom so the consumer can see it.0 -
Supply House
Okay, Okay, there are many supply houese that sell to home owners and do not carry all parts for equipment they carry. As a contractor this makes me mad. But as a businessman I understand it some what.
First, how many of you have a show room for your customers to go and look at? Many plumbing/heating companies direct thier customers to supply house/showroom stores. Then when the customer picks out what they want some contractors tell they that "IT'S GOING TO COST YOU ALOT OF MONEY" you would be better of getting the cheaper brand, you know like the one at Home Depot. Ask yourselves one question, if the plumbier/ heating company installs it shouldn't they have a showroom so the consumer can see it? Things that make you go Hummmmm!
Second If you are a supply house and you are going to carry a neww line my customer does not care that you are back order because it is a new line. If you carry it STOCK PARTS first. It may effect your bottom line for the first six months but from then on it is gravy. And if you are going to sell to HO beause Home Depot does better make sure you increase your LIABLITY INS., just to be on the safe side.
I believe both sides today have enough to spread the blame around that maybe we should sit down and talk.
My problem is with the distributors that won't allow the small supply houses to carry their product. Even after mnay contractors lobby for it. I go where I get the best service NOT price.0 -
Transfer house
I like that name I think I am going to add it to my daily word usage. I am out here in Western Mass, by that I mean Berkshire county and I must say I only have Transfer Houses or places that are trying to compeat with the box stores. I see one wholesaler trying to do it right but they seem to miss the mark as much as hit it. I also get calls for plumbing repairs and it took me 2 hours of driving and phone calls to get the parts I needed and they were for a Kohler toilet. When it comes to boiler parts I cringe at the thought of finding the parts. It seems the Answer is always "I can have it tommorrow" or next week even. What good does that do for people with a gas boiler down in December? I now shop by sending out a stock list by fax to the usual suspects and the one with the best price gets the order. When it comes to boilers being a small shop I go with the best delivery guys as long as the price is competive. Why is it so hard to find quality parts in a wholesaler nowadays? I know many will not pay the higher prices, the thing is some of us understand the difference between cheapest and best value. How far west does Capco want to go?Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.
cell # 413-841-6726
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supply houses
Joel,
While you may be correct in suppyly or as you call transfer houses do not carry every part, we do try and do the best we can. We carry many products in both plumbing and heating and are constantly trying to bring you the best and newest products. We try to bring you and many companies new ideas but many get shut out. I personally have been to your shop with an idea from a gas furnace manufacturer that put all of the stocking parts in a kit for your use and you shut us out. Again we are not perfect but I do take offense to the fact that we do not care for our customers. I and many in my company do care and take care as best we can our customers. 24/7 is our motto.
Supply House Bob0 -
Work the system
> What do expect from your supply house ?
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I expect NOT to have to wait in line while a sales person teaches a homeowner how to install a furnace! This has happened more than once. The supply houses should just keep a barrel full of their REAL customers' business cards and when Mr. H.O. comes in for a tutorial they should be intructed to fish in the barrel. THEN (and this is the IMPORTANT PART) they should say, "NEXT!"0 -
Work the system
From your complaints, I'm not sure if you are just venting or you're just a bunch of victims. I know that many wholesale houses suck. But, just like with crappy customers, we have to work the system we're stuck with.
I don't know about you, but my suppliers are having the same problems I'm having in finding and retaining good help. When I started in this business 30 years ago there were people in my local supply houses who had encyclopedic knowledge on the various product lines they carried. Where'd they go? Six feet under, I'm afraid.
What to do? Quite awhile ago, I decided that even though I couldn't avoid two stepping when purchasing product, I could at least eliminate the middleman when it came to product knowledge and support. How'd I do that? I started accumulating friends in the manufacturer's rep business. I was selective. I didn't bother with the guys who repped the nuts and bolts of our business. Instead I concentrated on those people you handled the products that were most likely to give me problems after installation. In my case, since I'm strictly a plumber (no wet side or steam for me), I pretty much concentrated on those people who handled faucets, china, pumps, and hot water producing machinery. When I have a problem, the guy whom I bought the product from will in most cases never even hear about it, unless the rep or OEM contact him. In the last ten years I've gotten even more proactive and formed relationships with key people right in the factories. Now, with more and more manufacturers embracing the internet, the info flow can go on 24-7-265.
For example, two weeks ago while out in the field, I had the misfortune of dealing with a hoppin' mad customer. Presently, my firm is in the later stages of plumbing her $10 million starter castle. Up until that day, I had never talked to the lady. In the course of 20 minutes she vented about how a faucet manufacturer had convinced her that something they sold her (thru us) would work in a particular way, which after a bit of frustration on our part, would not do so. So, when my people told her that our supplier wouldn't take the product in question back, she was pissed (even though the $ amount in question was a drop in the bucket when compared to the cost of the whole project). Immediately after I got off the phone with her, I called the manufacturer, whom I had had dealings with before concerning an unrelated piece of plumbing hardware. Having already established a relationship with them (street cred is power), I explained the situation as I understood it and asked them to issue an RGA, using the tact that it was in their best interests to do so. They agreed. So I called my supplier, who had been unsuccessful in their (possibly feeble) attempts to acquire an RGA, and told them to call so and so at the factory and he would authorize a credit and that I would be gathering up the product in question for them to come pick up. Two phone calls was all it took. I didn't even have to return to my office to make them.
I've got a lot more to say on this subject, if anyone is interested.0 -
bob
I don't expect you to have ever part every time but come on not having the ECM motor for the furnace we just bought and not being able to get it for 3 weeks??? (not you guys)
I believe it was you guys that didn't have the part for the standard 80% boiler that you sell thousands of. Worse when presented with the part numbers and boiler numbers your counter guy had the Deer in the headlights look.
Why sell all that plumbing stuff and all those different Mod Con boilers? I can't imagine trying to educate my people on all those different lines and try to stock parts for all of them would be a nigtmare so why do it?? Pick one line and support it better than anyone else like Heat Inc used to do and you'll be golden. In the 80s and 90s York OWNED the local HVAC market around here . Ask yourself why?? Where they the cheapest?? Nope. was it the best equipment?? Not always. But they bent over backwards to support us so that's the line dealers pushed.
I believe (but could be wrong) that the furnace you are refering to has the reputation as being a biulder grade unit. while that company has made great progress getting better that rep still hangs on which makes it difficult to sell a H.O. on. I would equate this with Hyundia who also has made lots of progress but it's an up hill battle to overcome that. Still it is one of the brands we are currently considering since support over the past few years for our standard line has completly disintegrated.
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The answer is scary.
Scary in that the more inventory they carry, the more money hey invest. It's all about making money. Them, and "us."
Let's take an example; a single B&G S-100 circulator. The pump was the standard of the industry for 50 years. To sell one (using today's pricing) the wholesaler buys the unit for $150. He adds $50. as profit, sells it to us for $200. He bought it in January and sells it in July. So he invests $150 to make $50 six months later. On paper, he makes 25% in six months on his "inventment." His overhead however will eat into the gross profit and may yield a net, net profit of 10-15% in reality.
We then ask him to also stock a replacement impellor, both plastic and brass - "just in case," a replacement coupler, a tube of B&G lube-oil, a spare motor-pak, motor-cradle bushings, replacement bearing/seal assembly, and assorted flanges that are OEM.
Given that the S-100 will run without probable failure for 10 years, what's the profit margin on over $300. of replacement parts that will languish in inventory for that long, and what besides the coupler would likely be purchased in the 10-year time frame?
Are there serious flaws in my analysis. Yes! But in defense of wholesalers who are the "store we need, to survive" there are decisions we need to be aware of before bordering on being unreasonable.
Could wholesalers make it better? ABSOLUTELY !!!!!
Before they can, however, we need to walk a mile in their shoes.0 -
It's about loyalty, too
Good timing for this subject. Please read my column and send me your comments:
http://www.achrnews.com/CDA/Articles/Column/ebfa8c3e0a9ae010VgnVCM100000f932a8c0____0 -
Tax
Don't forget whatever they have left at the end of the year as inventory is taxed as profit before it is ever realized, wasn't always like that. Of course other items have different scheduling and the government machine gets fed on what they see fit. PAC comes to mind.
Murph'
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It really is a \"Relationship\"
which either works well or it doesn't. We've had both experiences in the Baltimore area. Here's my take:
1. Pricing: We know some supply house sales personnel are at least partly on commission. Some of them, however, take this to extremes and jack up prices. Those of you who wonder why you haven't heard from us lately, stop wondering. You need to get your commissions on the volume of business you could do with us if you gave us better prices.
And we know most supply houses will sell to the general public- that seems to be a fact of life these days. If you're going to do that, set their prices high enough that the contractor can make a decent profit on the difference.
2. Credit terms: We understand you have some customers who have trouble paying their bills on time. Offer a percentage discount to those of us who hold up our end of the relationship by paying promptly.
3. Accuracy: We want what we ordered- the first time.
4. Availability: We need what we need when we need it. This goes for repair parts as well as complete units.
5. Delivery: On heavy items such as boilers, it's a big help if delivery personnel will take the item into the building on the hand truck. Of course we're glad to assist them.
6. Support: Most of us do our best to be familiar with the equipment we install or service. But if a question or problem comes up we need to resolve it quickly. We need to be able to call you for answers.
I was wondering if it would be appropriate to name names in this thread but I see some of you already have. We operate in the Baltimore area so here goes:
Our favorite supplier for residential boilers is Columbia Heating Products. All those Solaia boilers you've seen in our Wall pics came from there (watch for another one soon), and they do take them into the basement for you. Their service and support are first-rate. We also frequently use the Timonium branch of R.E. Michel.
For plumbing supplies, pipe, fittings etc. our favorites are McArdle & Walsh and Thomas Somerville, depending on which one is closest to where we're working.
This is not to say that there aren't any other good suppliers in our area, but these are the ones we keep coming back to.
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Joel,
Bunky...you've hit the nail on the head. The "Deer in the headlights look" that I get when asking for heating parts at some of our distibutors (transfer houses) is amazing.
These folks could pick a toilet flange from 50 years ago out in a heartbeat, ask about a spark control for the boiler line that they sold 3 years ago and..here comes that look.
I have to agree with your pick of CAPCO. The difference is that they picked their niche, and stick with it. True HEATING professionals from the folks that answer the phone, to the top.
Don't get me wrong, I love our suppliers and use each one to the "best of their ability". I also have learned their strenghts and weaknesses, and go with the one that will be able to service me the fastest.
Like Jared said, price point don't mean squat to me...the service is the captor! Have it....and they will come. JMHO. Chris0 -
Only increases in inventory are taxed.. increase in assets are increases in value and thus are profit. Profit chosen to be re-invested into the business as inventory, sure, but that's how it is.
If your inventory value stays the same from one year to the next, then you are not taxed on the same value of inventory a second time.
At least, that's how it works here...0 -
My point exactly, why would any supplier want to increase thier inventory every time a manufactor comes out with a new improved version. This could go on and on and would get very off topic, but get a tax law nudged in one direction and so do spending/investing habits!
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What I especially like is when I'm at the counter, at a buck and a half a minute, waitng for a home owner to get his zonevalve wiring question answered, and the salesman asks me for free advice for the homeowner! I only give my phone number...that's all he needs to know. I've actually had the "order taking house" supervisor call me on the carpet for being rude because I didn't help!
To answer the original question: it would be nice to have a reliable stock of repair inventory to draw from. The supply house has sold WMC boilers for thirty years...they oughta have a full line of blowers, transformers, ignitors, swiches, etc. No knowledge is required...get the orange book out and order the list. The counter guy doesn't even have to know everything I need...I do. 'Course, if he's looking to bust into the trades...his work ethic at the counter is telling his future emplyer alot. He might just take home a manual and read it...
To be fair, having done a stint on that side of the counter. Our local supply house is owned by a major corporation someplace else. The rules are that if a product doesn't move in a year, it goes back. The bean counters, someplace else, set the inventory count at last years level, which doesn't acount for growth of product line, or aging equipment. Followed to its logical end the inventory count will inevitably drop to zero and a situation where the bean counter sees no sales...producing a situation where the product obviously isn't needed any more.
I personally have a contact in Seattle, in an entirely different representative district. If I call him by noon, Alaska Time, I can have the part by noon the next day. Yep, it costs about 75.00 for Fed/Ex overnight...but, when you absolutely have to have it...0 -
Transfer Houses- God I love that . It's perfect.
The biggest chain in MA, CT, NY, VT, NH, ME. They are the worst. Know who I mean.
Western MA. Come on out Capco.
Ed0 -
Just a
little different slant.
Have any of you given consideration to the fact that many Manufacturers pull product from wholesalers and it then becomes our problem to locate who now carries the product and the parts.
Or how about the wholesaler who was bought out. Now where do you go?
If the product has been changed over the years, the product given to a different wholesaler, who will carry the parts from a ten year old boiler?
How many of you stock your own spare parts for the equipment you sold? I've been out of business twenty years and can still go pull an old American Standard flush valve from my bin.
Great thread, just wish there was a solution that made everyone happy.
Jack0 -
2 things
Thing 1:" The bean counters, someplace else, set the inventory count at last years level, which doesn't acount for growth of product line, or aging equipment. Followed to its logical end the inventory count will inevitably drop to zero and a situation where the bean counter sees no sales...producing a situation where the product obviously isn't needed any more."
"Followed to it's logical end..."That is so eloquent... and so true. I've seen it happen with the local hardware store. When it was run by a plumber, it had everything you would ever need. And customers lined up at the counter.
Later...It's run by a "businessman"...We sell 1 basket strainer for every 5000 1/2" 90 deg ells?
Obvious soultion ( to someone who doesn't know squat): quit selling basket strainers... which lowers sales because customers can't get everything they want, and start going someplace else... and get their 90 ells there too.
You lower the quality of your product which reduces sales which prompts you to cut costs by lowering the quality of your product, which reduces...
"Followed to it's logical end" "Out of Business" sign
Thing 2:
I am a Home Owner. I have no beef with these places not selling me stuff for the same price as contractors, but I do have a beef with them not selling it to me at all. If it'll make you feel better, I'll go to the "Homeowners only" counter around back, so as not to inconvienience you.
When all you contractors show up when you're supposed to, and you all know more than I do about my equipment, and how it works ... then you got a beef, ...but if you have to force home owners out, either by supply house policy or state laws, I think you don't have much to offer.
I assume all of you live someplace, and many of you are home owners. How many of you would not try to save "a buck and a half a minute"?0 -
Chris
The good news about the spark control is that they are not failing enough for the counterperson to know them as well as the toilet flange.
As a manufacturers rep I know that I cannot hold a gun to the wholesalers head to force them to stock replacement parts for new equipment, stocking "non-moving" parts at the margins that wholesalers are forced to work at is difficult(and also these newer parts will be in warentee which means they will lose money handling the warentee.) Then on top of that at the rate of pay the employees they hire are less than willing (in many cases) to pick up the manufacturers catalog and look it up for you. Then the next problem is that sometimes to satisfy a customer they may open a new piece of equipment to borrow the part and hopefully replace it correctly, then if you are offered a piece of equipment that is in a box that has been opened, you don't want it...a vicious cycle!0 -
There is some truth to part of this
I too am a homeowner and not happy with the level of service - or competance - of most are contractors. As a result, at times I buy from the wholesalers so that I can do the job myself.
For jobs that I did not want to to do myself: It took 2 years to find a painter for my house - who was willing to do the job right (and I live in a largly brick house). I did not have a problem with just fading paint on the trim and the two wood sided areas. I had a problem with poorly applied paint from the previous owner that was pealing off. Thus, the painter spent about 4 weeks in surface preps, and 1 week painting. I paid him well. Lots of so called "professionals" just wanted to slap on another coat of paint; a select few looked at it - told me how much work was involved in solving the issues - and declined to bid because they did not wish to do it (i.e.; there were easier jobs that they could do); only one person submitted a bid.
Concering my recent Vitodens 200 install: I was at the end of my rope trying to get a heating contractor to work with me - and had decided that one more comment or issue with the heating contractor and I was going to buy the thing myself, take a week vacation, and install it myself (with a little help from my freinds). While the heating contractor finally agreed to do the job - trust me - I paid a premium price to get the install I got. I'd have been many thousands of dollars ahead to do it myself. I don't mind paying premium prices - I do mind all the frustration and effort I have to do to find someone to do it.
I know from a lot of other folks that my story is not unique. I've a freind that couldn't get his cracked driveway cement replaced for 4 years because it everyone was "so busy" and the job was more work than normal (not easy access to parts of it) He finally scheduled a guy - in writing - a year and a half in advance.
So, would those that complain about the supply houses selling to the homeowners - and how they interfear with your work please answer the following questions?
1) Why is it that as homeowners we have such a hard time finding good contractors to work on our houses - at any price in a timely fashion (note - that I have no problem with a contractor charging a decent wage and making a decent profit)?
2) Why should I get out of the way at the counter for contractors who do not have a good reputation or who have turned down working on my projects?
3) Why should I not be able to get the often higher quality goods that are available through the supply houses versus the box stores?
4) Why should a supply house limits its customers (and sales volumns) to only contractors - when the contractors turn a lot of people's projects down.
I have absolutely no problem with the supply houses charging "retail" for non-contractors.
I know that many of you have problems - and that there are issues that need to be resolved - and that it affects your ability to serve the customers you have. Just keep in mind that us homeowners have issues as well that need to be addressed.
Perry
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Path of least resistance
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Jack
We stock lots of stuff we have toas we can't count on anyone else . Currently stock things like all common parts for Vitodens and Triangle Tube. Lots of general oil burner stuff . Ignitors and computers for probably 6 generations of York furnaces and for heatpumps going back 20 years. Plus all your typical hydronic stuff . Lots and lots and more everyday as the Transfer houses have less and less.
I'll be putting the ECM motors on the shelf now as well ....GRRRR.
Who looses is the home owner . Most contractors don't stock what we do and home owners end up with no heat sometimes for days.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
Couple of comments.
If Wholesalers kept a record of lost sales; would it change the attitude of the bean counters who determine what, how much, & when, stock is on the shelves?
When will someone design, & then use, a 'puter program that tracks peak sales, rather than how many were sold in whatever standard time period they select? Ignitors, ignition modules, fuel units, programming relays, etc., aren't barn burners in July, but they should be on the shelves in October.
Whatever happened to us, the contractors, keeping a critical parts inventory? We should know our customers, their equipment, & what parts we should have to get thru start ups, a weekend, or a cold spell. Even the wholesalers who do it right, can't always keep up w/ the surge @ certain times.
We have 2 Suppliers that work well w/ us. They know what we keep on hand, we tell them ( get out the chrystal ball Mabel) when we are going to add a part(s)or reduce usage of another, so they can adjust what they keep on hand for us. After all, this is, or should be, a 2 way street.
0 -
What I do as a supplier...
and have done for years...my customer calls me, I grab the part, they pick it up at my desk...avoiding the wait at the counter. Years ago it all started with a customer request for a part, I opened a book & found the part. Gave it to the customer & (knowing NOTHING about boilers) I started asking him questions about what the heck it was I gave him. He took a few moments to tell me what that spill switch was used for. Find someone at the supply house who has something on the ball & stick with them. If they ask a few questions like I did you will have them hooked!0 -
The basics in Supplier/Contractor Relationships
I stayed away from this for the last week to see the responses. First thing for most of you is, two things 1.You are not using your Supply House properly. (OR) 2.Your Supply House sucks. Probably, a combination of the two. Its as simple as that.
Have any of you sat down and talked to your Salesperson, Manager or better yet the Owner? Most contractors have a salesperson or key inside contact that can take care of special orders, utilize them. They tend to be more helpful than a counter guy whose job is to take care of whos next Regardless of who they are. Stay away from the counter, call ahead and have it ready for pick-up or schedule a delivery to your shop. Our counter is currently backed up and the phones are reasonably quiet, its your choice.
If we can get a package around the world and have it there by 10:30am, someone can get you this part. This can only be accomplished by the following: 1. You know exactly what part it is (not the thing that goes on that you know what Im talking about 2. The manufacturer has item in stock. 3. The order is placed before manufacturers cut-off time for deliveries (some between 1:00-4:00, depending on their UPS pick-up schedules). These 3 items are the most important part of the equation in deliveries.
No supply house can stock everything, not now, not ever so get used to it. Call ahead every time.
Saying all suppliers are bad is the same thing as all contractors are bad.
Some actually try very hard to take care of you. We are all in this together and cannot exist without each other. If you are not happy with whom you are dealing with go over their head and keep on it until you receive the level of service you have every right to expect. Some of us care, just like some of you
Rick
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