just a rant

Ken_8

That's why

they make hollow points - right?

I think that's also why they call them "smokeless" powder rounds (:-o)

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Unknown

Why do you have

to have the utility "lock out" the equipment? What do they do when they lock it out? Just curious as I know what is considered by the courts as making gas and oil inoperative is that the fuel supply to the equipment has to be disconnected and capped off. I assume this has to do with liability. I feel a service tech should have the "power" to shut off anything unsafe at any time. I know some companies do not shut anything off as they are worried about pipes freezing and getting a lawsuit. I guess a CO death and lawsuit is less of a concern than pipes freezing. Who can figure.

Jim Davis_3

Lock-out

My students in Philly told me last week they were not allowed to lockout or disable equipment. I told them that know one could pass a law or regulation that prevented us from saving a life. We are the contractor, we are the qualified, we are the experienced. If something unsafe, you disable. If you have a form for the customer to sign that tells them operating the equipment will cause death if they refuse to have it fixed, then fine. This will also cancel most of their insurance policies if something happens. Reviewing two court cases right now that state something in writing must be given to the customer.

jackchips_2

Tim,

what would happen if a tech does do a shut-down, there is damage because of it and a test done after the fact is neutral.

It seems from the many responses on this thread and others that the CO can have many different levels at times because of the various factors in the environment the readings are done.

How many times should a test be done? Under what conditions should it be done? What training should the person shutting the system down have? What does a company have to do, a check list if you want, to protect itself and the customer?

An inquisitive mind. No agenda.

Jack

Unknown

A few more questions

The furnace that produced 5000 ppm CO in the early 80s , what type of tester did you use ? Did it have to be calibrated , and was it done recently before the test ? I've been on the net looking for an affordable CO analyzer , and the highest ppm reading I saw was 2000 .

Also , what type of furnace and burner , and what did you do to correct the CO problem ? And did it affect the other readings ? Thanks for any info .

Ken_8

Excellent points

Jack!

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Jim Davis_3

Shut-down

A few years ago in South Dakota a contractor(student)found an unsafe furnace and told the homeowner they did not have the parts to fix it and would have to come back in the morning. In the mean time they were shutting it down. No CO was in the space at the time but the symptoms indicated overtime there would be. The homeowner was concerned about his pipes freezing. The contractor said they had a few electric heaters at there shop and he might want to pick some up from Home Depot. The next morning the contractor arrived with the parts to fix the furnace. The homeowner had already left for work. On the kitchen table was a note left by the homeowner and a crisp $100 dollar bill. The note read: "Thank-you for saving my life. For the past two weeks I have been suffering from severe migraine headaches. I simply blamed the weather and flu season. This morning I woke up feeling like a new person, perfectly rested and energized. Thank-you. Treat yourselves on me!!"
Any questions??

Unknown

Jack - My Experience

in several court cases concerning faulty equipment causing fires or other damage not necessarily CO is that an unsafe piece of equipment being shut off by a service technician in order to prevent possible loss of life or property damage is fully acceptable and in fact encouraged. It has been my experience that shutting of a gas cock or power switch as far as the courts are concerned does not prevent customers from operating equipment after the tech leaves. It is also as Jim Davis pointed out important to have a company policy in place and fully understood by everyone with documentation and customer signature stating they have been advised that it is unsafe to operate equipment.

Your test instrument in conjunction with a recorder is an official record of your test with date and time. A copy left with the customer and one attached to your order. This pins down time and date and states for example a high level of CO air free on such and such a date and time.

A firm company policy concerning safety issues needs to be in place and written out in company policy book. This is why I like Al Levis approach with definite policies concerning everything you do. In court that stuff is vital to protecting you and your company in law suits and liability issues.

All equipment should be tested at any time a tech is in a customers home. Keep in mind that it must be with customers permission and understanding as to what you are doing. An arbitrary walking into the lady of the house's kitchen and testing her oven will get you hit over the head with a frying pan. You must be able to sell the customer on the idea of how important for their health and welfare a test of their gas oven or other equipment is.

NOW the question about training. This is a very touchy subject with me and I do not want to get into a debate with anyone so please read what I post and do what you will but I will not debate this with anyone. NO ONE who does not have extensive formal training by a fully qualified and certified instructor and has had extensive testing to determine qualification should be touching any gas equipment. What does your average heating and plumbing tradesman know about gas ovens??? How about kitchen heaters, console heaters, unit heaters, outdoor grills, gas lights the list goes on. I do not believe you can in a two or three day training program make anyone a combustion analyzer expert and give them a card certifying the same. I have real problems with some of NATE programs and other certification programs that are really marketing gimmicks if you will. I have a liscense that allows me to install sprinkler systems, I have never installed one and do not plan to. I am not qualfied just that simple. I have other liscenses that I do not make public knowledge simply because I am not qualified even though I have a liscense.

My Gas Training Institute is now the training facility for the gas liscense in Rhode Island. We are going to be starting our first classes soon. A total of 240 hours training minimum for a Limited Journeyman liscense. I would like to make it more to be honest with you. After all the training then there is the experience required and that is something that can vary from place to place. I guess if you want to know I am a bit too much about all of this but I get nervous when untrained, unqualified people start touching gas equipment. I will not say anything about other fuels they are not my area of expertise.