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How can we complain about gasoline prices?......hb
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The UK
You are correct. The UK is the fifth richest country in the world. We work from Jan. to June of any year to pay all our Tax. Most people drive small cars & vans with speed cameras on most straight sections of roads. Yes it is '1984' here and no one votes anymore.
But I don't have to live here, I'm free & if one of my kids gets sick at 2.00am I can get them the best of health care. Yes it is '1984' here, but my kids have a life 10 times better than my Father had, in every way.
Thanks for reading.
Regards.
Jimmy Gillies.0 -
Part of me too.
Thanks, Duncan.
Thomas Tredgold, the man who wrote the first book on heating (it's in the Library), also wrote that it was impossible for a train, or any other means of transportation, to ever go faster than 10 MPH.
He was a widely respected civil engineer.
Retired and loving it.0 -
Don't get me wrong, Jimmy...........................
it's still a fine country with great people and we'll always be there for ya. GOD saVE THE QUEEN Your American Cousin, Mad Dog
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Each one of our personal ideologies are
an amalgamam (spelling?)of beliefs that we develop over time. I see it as a pie chart, with the percentages relative to how strongly we feel about a subject. I think everyone at This great forum called The Wall has a minimum Greeenie sentiment in their pie chart of beliefs. For some, it may be a sliver of pie to another, more than half. "Politics makes strange bedfellows...," and sometimes I find myself strongly agreeing with a person that i would be diametrically opposed to on another issue. I believe that we all ultimately settle in and Identify with people, movements and political parties that represent the biggest part of our pie. I guess I'd have to allot 3 slices of the greenie pie (out of 8)to myself. I believe in natural resource conservation, but I'm not ready to call myself a greenie because I don't care for some of their tactics and stances on many other issues. I guess you can call me a "lime-greenie" as opposed to Forest green. Mad Dog
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All fuels are not energy transport mechanisms. The fossil fuels have the potential energy already in them, the hydrogen fuels have to have the potential energy put into them by other means. I can see what you're saying here, but hydrogen and fossils are different. It's not meaningless. Yes, you are right about some options being sustainable. HOWEVER. Look at some numbers for sustainable fuels such as biodiesel and biogasses. The amount we COULD produce if we used all available sources for that end is a tiny fraction of the US usage. There will have to be MASSIVE development of sustainable energy sources before it'll be even a significant chunk of the US energy consumption. This is something I HAVE looked at, so it's not like I'm coming out of left field. Right now, sustainable energy is SO expensive that only the very green conscious are even looking at it. Price a PV panel big enough to run a 100 watt light bulb. It'll make your head explode. The amount of energy needed to make hydrogen is NO small amount. LOOK AT SOME NUMBERS. I'm tired of the rhetoric. FAR too many greenies talk like this: "If we all just put our heads together, we can make a difference, we can go green...."
I'm sorry, but as an engineer, I've looked at it and run the numbers, it's a monumental problem. We're gonna need some serious breakthroughs before I even get upbeat about it. For now, and the forseeable future, we are STUCK with fossil fuels.0 -
I am a mechanical engineer. I'm also a realist.
So let me answer your questions. I am somewhat uncertain about ozone depletion, since we have evidence that one solid volcanic eruption discharges more CFC's than we have produced in the 20th century. The jury's out in my mind. Since we only have a few decades of observational data on the ozone layer, it's not something we can definitively state one way or another.
I do believe in conservation, from an economic perspective. You need to wiegh the benefits of the consumption. What value are you adding by the consumption?
In the long term, I'm seeing a continued dependence on fossils, until we bring other methods of electric generation on line. One big one I've really been hoping takes off is Fusion. We're decades away right now. But it's the only thing that gives the energy density we need. There's also been some recent talk about Helium3, which is available in large quantities on the moon. Look that one up. Solar energy dentity is too low to be cost effective until oil gets really expensive. That's where I see us going. When oil gets really expensive, other stuff starts looking cheap. Its all gonna come down to producing electricity cheaply, and whatever transport mechanisms we use for people in the future will use that. I'd say electric cars will grow in usage.0 -
There is "potential energy" in hydrogen as well; your problem is just with how we currently would create it. That's fine, and you're right, we are stuck with fossil fuels at the moment. obviously, or we'd have switched over already.
However, look at the trends my man. PVs have dropped in price over the years and will only continue to do so, as well as become more efficient. Oil will only continue to get more expensive over time. It is inevitable that the economic situation will shift, it's only a question of when, and of whether or not we will be ready to capitalize on it when it does.
For that to happen, we have to continue to work on energy transport mechanisms that can work with alternative energy sources. The fact that hydrogen will, AND that it works with current fossil fuel and nuclear-based energy sources, means that we should start there.0 -
Frank Zappa aside, hydrogen is the most abundant fuel source in the universe. *BUT YOU CAN'T GO GET ANY OF IT*
It doesn't exist in large quantities on earth, except in it's oxidized form, which you have to spend energy get get de-oxydized. What everyone seems to be missing is that unless the source is here on Earth, you won't be using it. We're not going to be a spacefaring society any time soon, and even then, there's isn't a huge pile of hydrogen sitting around for your usage. Want some? Go to Jupiter. trouble is, it's a couple hundred million miles from Earth. That's a long ways...0 -
Very intriguing. Seems like solid science, but I'm not a geologist, so I might be missing something.
Thanks for the link!
Mark0 -
To be fair, I focused on your hydrogen comments. From the environmentalists I've met, you seem to have your head screwed on fairly straight. I'm not saying that we should not develop renewable technology. I'm just saying that we shouldn't pin our hopes on something like a technology that just moves pollution around. I'd like to see us focus on technologies that generate energy rather than move it around. Fusion is one of my favorites, because it would generate energy that isn't polluting, out of common materials, without a lot of conversions. I think fusion combined with hydrogen storage might be a good way to go. I don't see battery technology moving much because chemical energy storage is inherently low density.0 -
Fish 'n Chips
Were pretty good. Weather was fantastic for London. Public museums are absolutely incredible--and I've been to a lot of museums. Was afraid that the science museum would be "dumbed down" but not so.
They actually have automated radar guns/cameras on the highways. The cameras on streets are VERY serious devices--I guess some could be dummies, but they'd be dummies that pan, tilt and have visibly moving optics inside...
I thought the cameras would bother me, but they really didn't. I'm not a paranoid person, can defend myself pretty well and generally go wherever and whenever I want without thinking of possible problems. In the U.S. we're already recorded at nearly every gas station, bank, big-name chain, and even many small places as well--doesn't seem much different even though it was much more noticeable.0 -
It's OK
I didn't get you wrong.
Kind regards.
Jimmy.0 -
Well I agree Fusion would be a "magic bullet" if they ever get it to work.
However, we have technologies that DO work currently available; they are just still too expensive to use. But getting cheaper. If I have to bet on anything, I'll bet on a proven technology dropping in price over time before I'll bet on a magic bullet no one has even made work yet.
Maybe this experimental reactor in Japan will finally yield some useful results... I sure hope so! Can't beat clean energy generation, not at all. But gotta keep the eye on the ball...0 -
Hydrogen
is the answer. Fusion is the source of energy to reduce water back into its components, hydrogen and oxygen, either through electrolysis, or more efficiently through thermal decomposition. Hydrogen can then be sent down through the existing natural gas distribution system to homes and business. Equipment changes might be necessary, but much of the basic distribution infrastructure will be readily adaptable for the purpose.
Its still many years down the road, but if we could get our government less focused on petroleum and coal, and more focused on the ball, that would be a great improvement.
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Human beings. Where I'm comin from.
You're alright, Mad Dog.
A minimum of green here? Hmmm, I dunno. I'm a lot greener than most, I guess. Since I was raised in a small house in a family of seven, if it wasn't raining out, we kids were sent outside to play. Built every kind of fort, treehouse, cave, hut, shelter, snare, lookout, nest, ambush, trail, spring hole, raft, and camp you can think of. Pretty much a kid's paradise, but with the occasional rock fight. I'm laughin thinkin about it.
It sunk in early when, as a kid, I saw our favorite swimming / fishing hole trashed by a sewage treatment plant's effluent. The town fathers were fed the usual lies: "The water coming out of that plant will be clean enough to drink." Yeah, maybe if you're a carp, but not if you're a trout. And the same growth that happened everywhere in the U.S. ate up lots of our other playgrounds. That's life.
I was lucky to have the mighty Hudson River and 45,000 acres of interstate park lakes and forests and trails to keep me sane in my younger days of adjusting to the "real world" of making a living. Straight to the stream with a fishin pole after work.
The way I figure it, air and the water belong to everyone, and it chaps my hide that our government -the people- allows industry to poison what everyone has a right to, to get a few more percent profit instead of being responsible. Even an animal doesn't foul their own nest. I've hauled more slobs' trash out of the woods than I can remember.
Can't say as I personally like dirt bikes or snowmobiles or power boats. I just never went that way, never owned one, I go into the bush for peace and quiet. But Public lands are for everyone's use, and if it's used wisely, there's room for everyone. Horseback riders, dirt bikers, fly fishermen, campers, hikers, hunters, looky-loos. I don't have a problem with that. Just don't trash it. I figure there needs to be some preservation - primitive areas, some conservation - forestry and ranching and mining, and some wise recreational use. We gotta work with what we have.
But its all got to be responsible use. Like Will Rodgers said: "Invest in real estate... they ain't makin' it any more."0 -
>>>I am a mechanical engineer. I'm also a realist.
I definitely get that.
I have to admit I was surprised to read somewhere that we get nearly 20% of our electricity from nukes (does that sound about right?). Thank God for the sensible engineers and the U.S. way of building containment vessels for our reactors, or Three Mile Island would be more like Chernobyl, and the river it's built in the middle of would be ???
The power of one volcanic eruption dwarfs ANYTHING man can do. I read that book about the Krakatoa eruption in the 1800s. I'm thinking the scale of global dynamics is probably pretty much beyond anyone's complete understanding. We just don't have the tools or perspective, I guess. But stuff on a somewhat smaller scale, like acid rain, has been proven.
I'm surprised you think the jury is still out on CFCs. So you think there should or shouldn't be a restraining order on 'em ?0 -
Ants on a picnic table.
>>>I am a mechanical engineer. I'm also a realist.
I definitely get that.
I have to admit I was surprised to read somewhere that we get nearly 20% of our electricity from nukes (does that sound about right?). Thank God for the sensible engineers and the U.S. way of building containment vessels for our reactors, or Three Mile Island would be more like Chernobyl, and the river it's built in the middle of would be ??? I'm thinkin it's good to err on the side of caution and take preventative measures before disasters get too big to control.
The power of one volcanic eruption dwarfs ANYTHING man can do. I read that book about the Krakatoa eruption in the 1800s. I'm thinking the scale of global dynamics is probably pretty much beyond anyone's complete understanding. We just don't have the tools or perspective, I guess. But on the other hand, stuff on a somewhat smaller scale, like acid rain, has been proven.
It kinda surprised me you think the jury is still out on CFCs. So do you think it's prudent or over-cautious that there's a "restraining order" on 'em til the verdict is in?0 -
Not too long ago.
Laura's Mom remembered one of the first times she got to ride in a car. I believe she quoted her uncle as saying something like; "HANG ON HON! WE'RE GOIN' TWENTY MILES AN HOUR!!!"0 -
I thought
it was an interesting study as well.
I agree with your previous posts regarding alternative fuels.
Gald you liked the link!
Mark H
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My perception
of the original post was one of consumption,i.e why does someone need a gas guzzler when a more fuel efficient car will get them there just as quickly.
The same can be said of some of the homes these people live in ,who needs a 12,000 sq ft. house when it`s only four people,it may well be a well designed and fuel efficient system but it`s obviously going to consume more energy than a more modest home.
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what town duncan
i love upstate ny...mad dog
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hydrogen & rails
I don't know if I really want to be riding around with a tank of hydrogen in the car with me. Remember the Hindenberg. I'd rather smoke a PallMall. Even Joe Stalin, as big a despot, as he was let you smoke if you could find em. As for passenger railroads FERGIT IT!!! the greenies won't give back all them bike paths that they used fueltax dollars to build that nobody uses. Besides we melted all the track down to make rebar or sold it to the Chinese as scrap!0 -
I love that arguement. Gasoline fumes are explosively flammable as well, remember.0 -
Seen This site?
Lofty goals from this company. Lots of stuff to look through but they seem to have a lot of smart people working for them.(check the "staff")
http://www.blacklightpower.com/0 -
Seen This site?
Lofty goals from this company. Lots of stuff to look through but they seem to have a lot of smart people working for them.(check the "staff")
http://www.blacklightpower.com/0 -
Seen This site?
Lofty goals from this company. Lots of stuff to look through but they seem to have a lot of smart people working for them.(check the "staff")
http://www.blacklightpower.com/0 -
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Stony Point
Often confused with StonyBrook on the island.
We didn't really consider it 'upstate' unless we were talking to someone from the city. The Catskills and the Adirondacks were 'upstate' to us.
It was a quiet little town in the 50s, not bad in the 60s, but grew like an s.o.b. once the Palisades Interstate Parkway was built.
I hardly recognize parts of it now. But what a great place to grow up!0 -
Not to be a smartie-pants
but the Hindenburg did not blow up because of the Hydrogen (though it contributed). Apparently, it was static electricity causing the external skin to catch fire that did her in at Lakehurst. The clue? The color of the flame was wrong for Hydrogen, while it was right for whatever gas-proofing paint the Germans were using on the exterior.
As for bike paths vs. railroad tracks and the like, I'd like to point out that many communities don't have either or that either were ripped out with great entusiasm to make way for roads. I would prefer to have the choice of public transportation vs. having to drive, walk, or bicycle wherever I want to go. Planning effective and efficient public transportation into most communities costs nothing until the houses are built. Then things get expensive.0 -
Went for a
high speed walk down one of them converted prarie paths yesterday and got thirsty. Stoped at a 7/11 and bought a 20oz. bottle of water for $1.06 with tax, that's $6.40 a gallon. It's cheaper to drive the hummer than walk ;>]0 -
Stay away from California...
Their gasoline was at $2.47 per gallon, and their REGULAR bottled water was $13.50 per gallon!
Speaking of colored people, I guess I'd be a Yellowish Green person. I'm a practicing cautionary environmentalist, that needs more sun!
Gotta get out of this basement more often and go play kick the can...
Interesting thread tho...
ME
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