The Most Dangerous Thing in a Boiler Room Isn’t the Boiler. It's Hearing it's Grandfathered in

RayWohlfarth

This weeks video talks about what you see and what you do in a boiler room. I've heard for years that older systems and their old code compliance were grandfathered in. Sadly, it's not true. Hope you like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5deHfmrCJNU

Ironman

Thank you, Ray. That needs to be said over and over since so many “techs” keep saying the very things you mentioned here.

retiredguy

I often wondered just how much experience the "boiler code" writers had with the potential bombs we serviced. Safety should have always had the highest priority. Allowing old code or yesterdays technology to supersede safety can produce a very bad situation. I pushed for maximum safety since I or one of our other techs would be in that boiler room. I witnessed first hand just what can happen in a boiler room even with the best intensions. Being in the vicinity of a pressure vessel that has an incident will give you a new perspective on safety

Steamhead

We still hear inspectors and Code officials say the infamous Federal Pacific circuit breakers are grandfathered………

RayWohlfarth

@Ironman I learned that quickly while on a conference call with the lawyers

@retiredguy Boiler rooms are so much safer now than when I started. I remember an old system where the controls were on the neutral wire and my journeyman said the how it went

@Steamhead I still see those 😂

Ironman

Another thing that I hear a lot of from contractors is “the customer wants it done that way”. I always respond with “you’re the expert and you’re supposed to be the one who determines how it’s done. Never let a customer design the system or determine the correct way to repair something. If it ends up in court, the judge will tell you the same”.

EdTheHeaterMan

My grandfather died way back in 1954 before I was born. So nothing was ever "grandfathered" for me!

Mad Dog_2

"You're the only plumber that ever pointed this out...its been this way for 40 years!!!" Ha Ha....It ain't easy when you're the only pointing serious hazards out, but never be bullied in to keeping more mouth shut. Mad Dog

RayWohlfarth

@Mad Dog_2 what is that?

Steamhead

Backwash from a water filter going into a drain with no air gap?

Bob Harper

It's strange how a customer will call you to 'check' their system because they want it 'safe', whatever that word means. Then you point out a defect and invariably they go to the old, "Well, it's been that way since the house was built" or "well, it passed inspection when the house was built 50 yrs. ago" or "was that code 50 yrs ago?".

We promulgate new codes and stds. because we learn from our failures and we want to move out of the Dark Ages. A lot of codes and stds. come from people's misery. I get the old, "Well, it hasn't burned down in x# yrs." I retort, "Tonight may be the night!".

Regarding grandfathering and things having 'passed' inspection back in the day. A municipal inspection is Not a replacement for the full body of the code. You are held to the entire code regardless of what Hector the Inspector spots or misses. Another point I drive home is that passing inspection means you scored a D minus. It is a minimum standard. It may be A+ work but it is scored the same. Then, consider inspectors have immunity to prosecution (for the most part), it waters down the value of their approval.

We've also learned that certain equipment that once was grandfathered has been found to be deficient, if not downright hazardous. As mentioned, Fed Pac. panels are a great illustration just as knob & tube wiring. My personal favorite is, of course, terra cotta clay tile chimney lining. It is obsolete and should be banned but the lobbies are too powerful.

I want to bring up another issue with older installations we need to consider: service life. Most mechanical materials and components have a life expectancy ranging from 25 to 50 yrs. Properly installed electrical cable's plastic insulation still breaks down over time. Loose connections, damage, and hot environments coupled with repeated fault current trips wear out the insulation. Atmospheric moisture and oxygen corrode electrical contacts. When was the last time you trimmed existing wires, stripped insulation and made new connections? Do you measure voltage drop across devices such as contactors, transformers, relays, etc.? When is the last time you recommended replacing a gas regulator because its older than you? Do you test pressure relief valves annually as recommended by every mfr. ? If not, you're liable. 100% of every tech I've mentioned this to whines that the valve will drip. Fine, replace it. Watts recommends replacement every 4-5 yrs anyway. On water heaters, pull the T&P valve the look through the tank at the anode rod to evaluate need for replacement. It's cheap insurance and you're following mfrs. recommendations. That transfers liability. At a minimum, ALL safety devices and features must be tested annually or sooner if indicated and replaced as needed or per the mfrs. schedule. Everything made by man can and will eventually fail.

Mad Dog_2

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900373#Comment_1900373

My Man Steamhead wins the Prize!!!!

pecmsg

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900292#Comment_1900292

don’t you mean Federal NO BLOW!

Steamhead

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900384#Comment_1900384

The abbreviation FPE means "Fire Protection Eliminated". For those not familiar, go here:

https://inspectapedia.com/fpe/FPE_Stab_Lok_Hazards.php

pecmsg

Madison Sq Garden had those.
you could run 2) 1/2 - HP compressors on a 15 Amp circuit!

Steamhead

We've had to tell some customers we can't do the work until their FPE panel is replaced. I started hearing dark rumors about them in the 1970s (yes, I really am that old), now we have more than ample documentation.

JUGHNE

The company I worked for starting in 1969 (yes, I am older than Steamhead), we put FPE exclusively in hundreds of houses.

We noticed that the boss and older journeymen put Square D or comparable in their own houses……eventually we learned why.

For the large contractor, If you purchased the breakers from them they would give you the panel with the main installed. So that was hard to beat for the bottom line.

Common practice for the time was to run a 12-2-G home run to the DW space and tape it up until the DW was installed. The new guy tried to ID the breaker by his normal method of shorting the cable with his knife, his previous company used another CB. He burned up the knife without tripping the CB.

The breakers would not make good contact with the buss bars without the cover panel in place to hold the breakers into the buss. The "Stab-Lock" contact was that bad.

I once ran a range with a 30 amp FPE CB for years until the lady had all 4 burners and the oven running, it then finally tripped.

However, we never had any call backs for "nuisance" tripping of breakers.🙄

BTW, I do have a small box of misc FPE CBs on the shelf……the auction is a few years away…..in my mind anyway.

Intplm.

CYA… Cover your A*S… Take pictures and document all that you find when a customer asks to make it safe. Document their attitude and their demeanor as to what they say and how they say it when they refuse to make the improvements they have asked you to find and make safe. CYA.