Trane XE 60 leaking water from AC
Greetings Folks,
Trane XE 60 leaking water from AC
I've got a Mom in her nineties and an old Trane (probably 35 years old?) and one of them is acting up. Not my Mom.
Last year same time had condenser problems but replaced all the electrical parts outside and rinsed coil and was okay. We are average poor and can ill afford the prices of repairmen. I am like most farmers on a small holding, barely surviving.
The Trane is leakin water and I noticed the temperature in the house was not as cold as I
expected after running a couple hours. It didn’t drop the temp asfast as expected. The leak was on the floor and inside near the fan compartment.
What I did:
1 Checked drain line from evap unit. Okay and removed some debries near drain hole on basement floor. Ran plumber snake into evap opening to see if blockage. None.
Ran AC and same problem.
2 Then check air filter but knew was okay because changed in May before AC even needed.
3 Then opened up evap panel to check condensate drain pan for blockage or leak.
Water was in pan so appeared to be okay for leaks. I then vacuumed out water and black
little pieces that looked like a rubber coating of some sort. Perhaps the tray had been coated originally – I do not know.
After debries removed I pored in water opposite drain line and checked if was going out. I
did not see leakage and it flowed out.
I was thinking maybe the black pieces had caused a dam and then overflowed the pan.
4 Next I checked the inside of the Evap coils for dirt. Just a bit found, probably less than 1 % of
coil area. But I vacuumed it out anyhow.
Result: No change.
5 Then while running I looked at drain going into floor and didn’t see any water coming out so I disconnected pipe near where comes out of Evap unit. Nothing coming out. So shut off AC.
I was tired and just put small tray under line (3”) out of Evap but no water was coming out
anyhow.
In AM I went to see about reconnecting and the tray was full of water. That is the tray to
catch any drips I put there. The water had come out at some point while the AC was off.
Today I am running AC for short time and see that humidity quikly dropped from 63% to 50 in
less than 30 minutes but temperature still slow to fall.
Note: I had to run AC even
with problem because of Mom needed cooling.
Current situation; The above symptoms happened at around 90 degrees outside with high humidity. Yesterday in high eighties I ran AC and got very little water on floor and none in bottom area where fan is and water was previously. The side panels where evap coils face were dripping condensation.
Trying to puzzle out and ask experiebced folk for help. I’m
confused about symptoms changing when I have not actually done much.
Should I get rid of Mom or fix
AC? Thanks in advance/\.
Comments
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is the coil icing?
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I am assuming this is a up flow furnace with a coil?
maybe you have done some of this already:
Plug the drain coming out of the drain pan and flood the drain pan to see if it is leaking. If it is not leaking, then it is overflowing.
If it is overflowing and not draining, then I would suspect some weird airflow issue. An up-flow furnace shouldn't need a trap on the drain, but I always put traps on every unit so you could try that. Drop down from the coil a long way to get some head on the trap then come up 3" and go back down worth a try. Put a tee on where it comes out of the coil with the branch to the coil. This will let you look in the tee. You can try it with the tee open like a vent
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or it is low on charge so the part of the coil with some liquid under too little pressure is icing and causing the outside of the case to sweat and is then dripping off when the cycle ends and it melts
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@dook7 , some pictures might help. If you're using a phone, take pics with it then click the portrait icon on the bottom of the page to post.
For now I'll assume the air handler is in the basement? And I'm thinking horizontal because you were able to access the drain pan and the inlet side of the evaporator.
Is the drain trapped? Some Trane units put the evaporator in front of the fan where a trap isn't really needed. But if the evaporator is behind the fan, a trap is needed. And the should never be water in the blower compartment.
If the drain seems correct, run the AC for a good hour straight. Set the thermostat to 60° At the end of the hour with the unit still running, check the suction line (which is the larger pipe that's insulated) where it goes into the evaporator. If the pipe is icing, or even frosty, then there's other avenues to go down. The pipe should be cold and sweating.
How is the airflow after an hour? Same or worse? Is there buildup on the fan blades? Isulation in the blower compartment is secure so the fan doesn't pull it up?
On days that outdoor temperatures are higher than design for your area, its common for the AC system to NOT maintain set temperature, but it does seem there is an issue to be found.
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THANKS All. Will collect info asked and report back shortly.
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show the condensate drain coming from the coil pan to the floor or pump
known to beat dead horses0 -
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You can see the condensate drain coming out of the coil behind the Sheetmetal that is folded back.
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but can we see what it does or doesn't do from there?
known to beat dead horses0 -
Have you checked to see if the suction line is freezing up? Water falling down into the blower compartment isn't good.
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or like 1/3 of the coil freezing and the rest of the coil warm because the suction pressure has fallen below freezing.
this is what makes me thing the coil is icing because the superheat is like 40f/the suction pressure is below freezing:
"5 Then while running I looked at drain going into floor and didn’t see any water coming out so I disconnected pipe near where comes out of Evap unit. Nothing coming out. So shut off AC.
I was tired and just put small tray under line (3”) out of Evap but no water was coming out
anyhow.In AM I went to see about reconnecting and the tray was full of water. That is the tray to
catch any drips I put there. The water had come out at some point while the AC was off."btw the black stuff is probably something from the fungi kingdom.
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assume you have verified the drain line is not clogged? Do you have pump or gravity drain?
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Here are views requested with drain connected etc.
UPDATE 7-14-26
1 – Thanks again to all respondind.
2 – pic of drain setup & side where condensation seen plus same on opposite side.. No trap on drainline. No insulation in blower compartment. No drain pump.
3 - 7-12 Sunday: outside about 85-87 degrees inside 80-81 & humidity @ 42 % in living room where Mom is.
I ran it for a few hours. At 430 PM the fat pipe was cold and moist.
The smaller pipe was lukewarm/room temp.
Airflow: possibly was reduced from start of AC. I felt a # of first floor
vents with hand. Id say reduced.No puddles seen. But condensation on both side of duct where Evap unit is.
4 – Monday: outside about 90 degrees
Ran a number of hours. Humidity was reduced but temp was not. Temp measured in three spots 1st floor.
Some ice on fat pipe but insulation was pulled back so I could see so possibly I didn’t get it back properly.
Water found in blower compartment after I shut off for night and checkedit.
Drips seen on sides of duct covering Evap.
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what is the temp of the suction at the condenser? the proper way to diagnose this is with a manifold set and a thermometer and calculate either the subcooling or superheat depending on if it uses a thermostatic expansion valve or an orifice. I can't see well enough in your pictures of the coil inlet and the liquid lint to tell which it is (the liquid line is the smaller tube)
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Thanks but Im just a handyman so no special tools. My temp were from thermostat and a humidity temp
gauge I keep where Mom sleeps so can watch too dry air etc. Im not sure where those other pics you said are to be taken.
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there’s no insulation on that supply duct it’s going to sweat
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"Some ice on the fat pipe..."
Low refrigerant charge, or poor air flow.
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Ice on suction line and lock of cooling point to low refrigerant or messed up airflow.
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why would the suction ice? wouldn't it be all gas by the time it gets to the suction line?
looking at the coil while it is running either by cutting an access hatch or removing a take off from the plenum will tell you if it is low on charge. if like 1/3 of the evaporator is cied and 2/3 is warm the evaporator is stared for refrigerant and the syction pressure is low. it culd be a plugged system or bad refrigerant control but most likely it has a very small leak and enough refrigerant to cause a problem escaped over the past 30 years.
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As pressure drops, temperature drops. And when it hits 32°...
Yes, all those things you mentioned can be easily checked by an HVAC tech, which the OP stated he can ill afford. Which sucks because a 90+ year old mother is stewing in it.
Maybe someone has a window unit or two they can lend or donate.
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Update 7-15
Thanks Hvacnut for your concern about Mom but she is okay.
I close windows when heat – open night when cool. I set floor fan at bottom of basement stairs to blow cold air up during first half of day – then run AC till nightfall. Then remove water from blower compart.
But correct if wrong but you all seem to all be pointing to two issues:
1 low refrigerant
2 bad airflow
I did not see any obstructions to airflow and evap coil is clean of debries.
Refrigerant is out of my league so it looks like the service call will be necessary. Too bad it is not as easy as a car recharge! I appreciate the help and know how hard it is to diagnose stuff remotely so thanks to all again!
When issue is fixed I will report back outcome.
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easier than a car because on a car you have to kind of guess when the receiver is full by when the subcooling starts changing again.
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Do we know if its R22 or R410A? It'll say on the outside condenser tag. I'm thinking R22. Looks like a piston and flare connections at the evaporator.
If its R22, when you call ask if they'll charge an R22 system. The company I'm with frowns upon it. With the flare fittings and the Schrader port at the evaporator liquid line, it might be worth an electronic leak search. Fix the leak so the $$ you spend doesn't escape to the atmosphere.
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or it has been leaking 1 oz/year for 30 years and you'll never find the leak with any sort of effort that will cost less than just charging it every decade or so.
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A definite possibility. But if its not checked first, a lot of $$ can be gone by the next day. And there's no refunds. The tech should practice CYA. At least offer the leak search, and note it if its declined.
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Unfortunately for the OP the answer will probably be "you need a new unit"
I have plenty of 25, 30 even 40 year old ac units running that my relatives have. The stuff can last a long time if maintained.
Most companies will not bother.
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I think its different for us because our relatives get free labor and no markup on parts. My own system is a Frankenstein's monster R22 because repairs and upkeep are cheap for me until I can replace. A new boiler is going in next month. My in-laws live in a 55 and over community. My father in-law loves telling me how much his neighbors paid and all the different HVAC vans he sees rolling in and out. And he loves telling his neighbors that he gets free service. My only payment is they're great to my kids.
Paying customers living week to week have a lot to weigh if its an obsolete system with a major repair. And the price of R22 is major. Is it cost effective to make that $$ repair hoping something else major doesn't break the following month? Or do a complete system replacement, and say, "Well, maybe little Becky doesn't REALLY need braces."
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If the suction line iced, it's low on refrigerant. If it's low on refrigerant, the coil is icing and blocking airflow. The more ice, the less airflow. The less airflow, the more ice.
Throw a manifold on it, verify it's low (even I could be wrong!) and then top it off. 22 is about half the price of 454B around here, less if you saved a garage bottle a few years back.
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there seem to be a lot of partial tanks of r22 on facebook marketplace. bring a scale.
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I have a leftover tank of R-22. Its getting low not much left. Good thing it doesn't go bad as it must be 40 years old
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doesn't go bad but those disposable valves on the tank usually don't hold perfectly. the tank of 134a i bought last summer lost 50gm or so if i recall since last summer.
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Maybe a 1/4" flare "quick cap" on the valve with the rubber O ring. I used to do that to keep any dirt out.
I had another really old tank with some R-12 in it that I got tired of looking at and gave it to someone a few years back.
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after an incident where the valve got cracked slightly on the r22 tank while putting it in my trunk i keep an o-ring flare cap on it. for the 134a tank i don't just have an acme thread cap laying around.
i don't think the cap will stop it from slowly seeping completely, might slow it down.
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UPDATE 7-17
I just saw this icing outside when I went to look at refrigerant type. Does the ice confirm the diagnosis of low refrigerant? Would rewrapping that pipe help?
Tag on condenser said MFG 1988 and refrigerant 22.
Allshore Guy - which duct should I wrap that you mentioned?
Hvacnut - Im concerned about "little Becky" What type of bucks are you talking about if needs R22?
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if it is icing all the way back to the condenser i'd suspect indoor airflow. is the blower running on high and intact and clean?
it should be vapor at that point if there is enough load on the evaporator
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that’s frozen up!
Pull the disconnect out. Let the indoor fan run for a while.
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but if it were low charge icing it wouldn't ice back to the condenser, it would be mostly vapor coming back to the condenser
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As the coil freezes refrigerant travels furthere down stream.
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Well, there's "little Becky's" all across this nation. And each is a singular story. Same for HVAC or any free market place. Prices vary. If the contractor is reputable, it doesn't hurt to get an estimate (or three) for complete system replacement. Furnace included.
I'm not recommending the furnace just due to age alone. The new AC equipment uses a sensor that if in the case of a refrigerant leak, it shuts the fan off as a safety. With a new matching HVAC system, the sensor will plug right in to the new furnace. If not, a retrofit sensor is used that might not be compatible when the time comes to replace the furnace. The fan also might not meet the CFM requirements of the new AC. I'm not gonna lie and say you won't be shocked at the quotes, but these appliances aren't "wants", they're "needs". For me anyway. And they don't last forever. If there's any way possible where it can be budgeted, do it.
You should still be able to use the existing chimney for a new furnace. It'll be 85% AFUE with induced draft. It'll be louder than the atmospheric furnace that's there. With the AC, tell them nothing fancy. Lowest allowed SEER rating with simple controls. And make sure the equipment gets registered. Some manufactures have an extended warranty but only if its registered.
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