Vaporstat Time?
Now that the near boiler piping is corrected, I'm wondering if I should swap in the Vaporstat I purchased during all my troubles? My current pressuretrol is a PR404A1033 with cut in set to .5 lbs with 1 lb differential for a max pressure of 1.5 lbs.
The vaporstat i have is a L408J1009 0-16 oz per square inch. My system is a two pipe system with traps (new) on all radiators. My well past the return window for the Vaporstat, but I'm curious if it would be worth while to swap it in. Thoughts?
Comments
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The traps on the radiators are one part of the equation but the way the mains connect to the returns is the other part. If there is a trap for condensate than the vaportstat would likely not do too much, it would increase the thermal efficiency slightly by lowering the steam temp a little but it may also increase standby losses by cycling the boiler on and off.
On the other hand if it will prevent steam from pushing through a water seal from the main to the return then it will have a big benefit.
Measuring your actual pressure now(on a long cycle with a low pressure gauge) will give you an idea of if you are building pressure for the vaporstat to control in the first place.
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As mentioned above, I'd measure the pressure first. See what the system is actually doing. A well matched boiler to the system won't make much pressure anyway. If you decide to use the vaporstat I'd leave the Pressuretrol and add the vaporstat as a redundant control with the two controls wired in series.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System
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You already bought it…use it.
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Example on a long burn:
Still getting a little surging in sight glass and light rusty colored water. I will continue to flush the boiler in effort to get water cleaner and hopefully reduce or eliminate surging.
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I have never seen a pressure gauge rated for that high of a pressure bounce like that on a pig tail, they usually don't move at all. What does the gauge glass look like?
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Mine has. it’s due to surging and/or high water level in my experience.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
That's terrible.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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There is mild surging happening in the sight glass. I am continuing to skim the boiler daily which has helped reduce the surging and the water is slowly clearing up. The top gauge is 0-3 PSI, bottom is 0-30 PSI.
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has it been skimmed since the repipe?
NJ Steam Homeowner.
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
I am skimming it each day before work based on videos and reading I’ve done on skimming. The water is slowly becoming less rusty each day.
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ok you said flushing which is why I asked.
Is there ever any oil sheen seen exiting the boiler? That’s the only reason to skim.
Do be aware all that fresh water will increase rust formation
NJ Steam Homeowner.
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el1 -
I say skimming but I believe it’s more drain and fill. My boiler:
I do not find a 1.5 or 2 inch port at the water line on my boiler which would be used for true skimming. Any thoughts? It’s a HB Smith GB250.
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The 3/4" plugged tapping should have been fitted for skimming.
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¾ " tappings aren't large enough for effective skimming.
But I see that's the best you're gonna do on that unit. Not a good steam boiler. And it's 36 years old, so there's that.Good talk.
Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
Consulting & Troubleshooting
Heating in NYC or NJ.
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Somewhere up there there is a comment on a pressure gauge bouncing. Some installations will, depending very much on just where the gauge is tapped into the boiler. This is particularly true if the tap is below the water line. The cause is turbulence in the water, not so much pressure variations — not really surging.
Are you up for a glass boiler, @ethicalpaul ?!
When one is playing with pounds, it shouldn't be a problem. Where the problem can arise, at least in my experience, is when one is using a vapourstat, especially the mercury ones, which are very sensitive to pressure variation (they are meant to be, folks!), and when one is close to the cutout pressure, as even a slight bounce may cause a false trip.
Snubbers are available which cure that — but be aware that they can and do clog, which is a worse problem. My own suggestion, which I use, is to place the vapourstat on the header, or at the very least on a tap high in the steam chest should you be so lucky as to have one. Problem solved…
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England1 -
I see the depression on the right side and will schedule the tech to return to install the 3/4" tap to enable skimming, even if improperly or inadequate size, better than nothing.
The repipe introduced oil sheen which is getting less with day. I understand fresh water introducing new rust factor, but I believe it is priority to get the oil from the repiping out yes?
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Back to your original question. I didn't watch the video but I see that you have a 0-3psi gauge. What is your normal operating pressure? Do you cycle on pressure often?
If your radiators are toasty hot at 0.5psi of steam, then yes a vaporstat is definitely worth it. If your boiler is extremely oversized you'll be cycling on pressure a lot with a vaporstat, which isn't the end of the world. If your radiators need 1psi+ to get hot a vaporstat may not be the best idea….yet. With a two-pipe system you should definitely have low pressure steam and higher pressures to get things hot indicates other problems with the system.
I have a 45 year old Peerless boiler. Single pipe, counterflow. About 50% oversized. My radiators get plenty hot at 0.5psi. I added a vaporstat to cut out at about 14 ounces of pressure with a 10oz differential. Its a sweet spot between cycling too much due to being oversized and keeping the pressure low.
The system works great and the pressuretrol is now a backup safety device. The less pressure my 45 year old boiler has to see, the better!
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The boiler has yet to cycle on pressure after the repiping. Pressure gauge tops out at .7 - .8 lbs on long burns. Pressuretrol is set to .5 Lb cut in with 1.0 Lb differential currently (lowest it can go). The vaporstat is a leftover from my parts canon effort to fix what only a repipe could.
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It sounds like your boiler is sized correctly. I'd 100% use it, you already have it and it will allow you to use your pressuretrol as a secondary safety. I'd start with a 8oz cut-out and see how thing work.
If your radiators are screaming hot at 8oz there is no need to keep firing at 100% until the thermostat is satisfied.
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you can't really get rid if the oil by draining it, the oil just clings to the inside of the boiler when you drain it and floats on top of the new water, you have to skim it, slowly run the top surface of the water off through the skim tapping.
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Understood, I've scheduled the tech to return to install the 3/4" port. Think I've put of of tech's kids through college this past year ;)
What are the needed part(s) for a proper skim port? Nipple and a valve?
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i mean y9ou can do it with just a nipple and a cap but a couple nipples, a valve, maybe an ell to turn it down toward the bucker and a cap or plug are better. since the skim port is just 3/4 I might use 2 nipples and a reducer and use a larger valve and fittings from there.
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It looks like the manufacture's recommended cleaning method is on pages 19 and 20 of the manual, Section 4: Maintenance (Steam Boiler Cleaning Instructions).
https://archive.org/details/manualzilla-id-6979130/mode/2up
Was the oil washed off of the inside of the new pipe before it was installed ?
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
Tech said he did wash the pipe before install, I'm not sure what that washing was done with, but I'd assume soap (Dawn) and water, but will find out.
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Absolutely, but do it by skimming, and daily is not required. Then once the oil is out you can strive to minimize the introduction of fresh water.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el1
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