Heat not getting to 4th floor and radiator spitting on 2nd floor on same riser

blainemackay

I have a Burnham V904A gas fired cast iron boiler in my building. The building was built in 1908. We have 8 units in the building and 5 rooms in 5 of the 8 apartments and 3 apartments on the “A” side of the building have an extra room over the vestibule. 43 rooms and 43 radiators. We have five risers off the boiler. I manage the building and work with the supers doing repairs. We maintain the boiler. We clean the LWCO yearly. We blow it down weekly. We keep a log of water usage. We canvass all apartments yearly and check that the radiators have working air release valves.

The building is oriented North to South. The boiler is on the street side of the building and originally was coal, then oil and now (as of 2017) gas. The law in Brooklyn is 68 degrees during the day. We keep the thermostat set at 72 and I live on the first floor and my apartment in the front two room (south end where we have the boiler) is often 73 to 77 degrees.

The laterals to the back of the building are uninsulated. I recently watched Dead Men Steam School and I know I have to insulate the laterals. The building is 83 feet long.

The radiators on the street side of the building on the 4th floor get hot about ½ way across the radiators. The third floor is a little better. On the “A” on the second floor the radiator spits water and we plugged the opening where there should be an air release valve.

I have attached photos of the near boiler piping.

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I could give you a lot more information but it might be better for me to answer questions and save everyone time. I want to get the radiators working on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th floors.

delcrossv

What type of vents do you have on the hot side/lower floors? And yes, you need to insulate the mains and runouts as much as you can.

ethicalpaul

is the boiler experiencing carryover?

blainemackay

We can tell if we are getting carryover by the boiler surging and using water? Is that correct? The boiler has surged in the past and we've used Steam Clean. It now is surging about 1/2" to an 1" on the glass gauge. It uses between 2 to 3 gallons a week.

We use Gorton angle vents. On the 4th floor we have a Gorton D size vent and same on the 3rd Floor. On the first floor we have the #4.

ethicalpaul

no, using water is not an indication of carryover.

But carryover makes the indicated water line temporarily drop so it confuses people.

If your waterline is only moving an inch during steaming, it’s likely not carrying over/surging. It’s just boiling

2-3 gallons a week is too much. It is leaking steam or liquid water.

blainemackay

Other than insulating the runouts what do you think I should do? I saw on the dead men steam video that I should vent the risers but I don't understand how I can do that if the riser ends at the radiator on the 4th floor. Do I vent them near the ceiling on the third floor?

Jamie Hall

near the ceiling is one way. Another way — if the inlet to the radiator is at the top — is to drill and tap the riser just below the valve and install a vent there. It should be a nice big one!

Remember that it's really a main vent, and the idea is to get steam to the radiator faster. The radiator vent is still used to control the heat from the radiator in the usual way. Or if it's two pipe, the inlet valve can be used to control.

blainemackay

There is forty feet of vertical rise from the boiler to the fourth floor radiator. What size main vent do you recommend. I use Gorton vents. The inlet to the radiator is at the bottom. I'm about to change the valve because it is the wrong type (it is for a water system) and when I do that I could install a T and extend the riser keep the valve at the same level. What do you think about that solution?

Jamie Hall

Oh well. If you are changing the valve the T and the vent on top is ideal! Do it. I didn't suggest that because of the hassle of changing the vale.

For that long a riser I'd use a Gorton #1.