New Weil-McClain Steam Boiler w Domestic Coil - NOT WORKING - HELP!!
This install is only about 4 weeks old. I keep calling the contractor but he isn't getting to the root cause.
Weil McClain EG-35 with Domestic Coil
When installed, the hot water didn't work. He came back the next day and couldn't seem to get good hot water. After 2 hours of working on it he determined that he had to fill the water ALL THE WAY UP. He seemed uncertain about this so I knew something was off, but he told me it would be fine.
The sight glass is 100% full and he told me the water inside is FULL.
The hot water still doesn't work - neither does the heat.
Hot water is cycling as follows:
Warm for about 4-5 minutes then gradually gets to hot. Stays hot for about 5 minutes. Then gradually gets cooler and cooler - back to a warm temp. Then starts the cycle over again.
Now that it's getting cold, we tried the heat and it isn't working. Some radiators are getting warm on the top area only. Some are not getting any heat at all.
They came back and did nothing with the water but turn the valve up for more hot water. That obviously did nothing, but I didn't realize until they left that that was all they did.
As far as the heat. They replaced the vents in the basememt (4) and didn't ever bother to check the vents on the 1st or 2nd floors. They turned the pressure up to 2.5. The manufacturer told me 2psi could heat a 30 stroy building.
I have no idea what to say to this contractor now and I need help. I called the only other Weil Mcclain "certified" contractor in my area and they don't want to get involved with a second opinion on the install. Even if I pay. They say I need to keep working with my contractor since they installed it and it's all covered by warranty.
I need help! THANK YOU!
Comments
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Boiler is piped wrong
What is the water heater temperature setting on the aquastat?
Difficult to see the hot and cold water pipes that enter the DHW tankless coil.
There is no mixing valve to control the DHW temperature leaving the boiler.
Need a repipe of the boiler and a repipe of the potable water lines. The diagrams are in the instruction manual.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Boiler is not piped right. Hartford Loop is not right. Look in the manual it calls for a 2" riser and 2" header (which you have).
Did the installer skim the boiler and clean it?
Hartford loop needs to be repiped ….see man
Tankless coil does not have a mixing valve
NOT YELLING HERE JUST DIDN'T WANT YOU TO MISS THIS:
I think your installer installed the wrong boiler. He used the tankless coil opening for a hot water boiler. The steam boiler has a square opening not round.
Tankless coil will not work with a normal steam water level and heat will not work with a high water level.
Sorry to say your installer is an idiot.
Post your location but another contractor will probably not touch this if it is the wrong boiler.
You may have to ditch the tankless and go with a gas HW tank if he won't change the boiler.
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The tankless coil is inside the jacket. The aqua stat is in the wrong location. It is currently in the skim port, which is above the boiler water line. On the rectangular plate inside the jacket, there is a tapping for the aquastat
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Can you take off the front jacket and post a picture of what you see inside
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This is the mixing valve
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No surprise that you are not getting proper heat. Boiler is overfilled
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There's a round coil bolted into where the "skim port" should be on a steamer and it has pipes going to it, not just the Aquastat.
My EG series has nothing of the sort there, just a tapping for a skim port.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Maybe I don't know what I am talking about, but I looked at the boiler manual this morning. They show a round tankless coil for a HW boiler and rectangular coil for steam. I think if you buy the hW boiler you do not get the opening for a steam tankless.
To me the picture shows after blowing it up the round HW tankless coil. It is too high above the water line to work for steam. Look at the attached brochure and call me stupid. To get the section for a steam tankless is special order optional equipment.
Wrong boiler. Fix the Hartford and run it for heat disconnect the tankless and put in a gas fired HW heater or change the boiler or section.
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The steam boiler has a rectangular coil plate. Inside the jacket. The skim port, on the steam boilers with the coil, is not a tapping, it's a round plate bolted on, with an inch and a half tapping in the plate, for skimming. The boilers without the tankless coil, have a tapping in the block, to skim. I think that he has the right boiler, but with the wrong coil.
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Did they change that because on mine back in 2011 it was just a tapping
Mine doesn't have the opening for the proper rectangular one either. Or, do you get none or both?
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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The skim tapping on the WM, depends on whether or not the WM has the opening for the tankless coil. The ones without the opening, just have a tapping, like your boiler. The ones with the opening for the tankless coil, have a round plate, bolted on with an inch and a half tapping that is used for skimming.
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I called the only other Weil Mcclain "certified" contractor in my area and they don't want to get involved with a second opinion on the install. Even if I pay. They say I need to keep working with my contractor since they installed it and it's all covered by warranty.
This is a real shame but in every industry contractors don't like to correct or go counter to other contractors. In this case it's the "thin, steamy line"
Have you looked for a nearby contractor on this site's "find a contractor" page?
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el1 -
I don't know because I never installed one.
When I looked on Supply House what I read said that tankless coil openings for HW & steam are in different locations and they are "optional equipment"
I suppose it depends on what the supply house you by from stocks. But I don't think you can buy one with both tankless coil openings but what do I know.
Either way the OPs job is messed up
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The easiest way out of this is to cut your losses, cut the connection to the coil, and buy a standalone water heater.
You definitely don't want your water level to be above the gauge glass. That is a way to guarantee that water will get thrown up into your mains and radiators "percolator style"
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el1 -
With this unit you get none or both.
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This was an amazing catch! Thank you so much! I just got off the phone with the manufacturer and confirmed that they installed the WRONG domestic coil. They installed the one for the water system (round) not steam (rectangular). The good news is - with this boiler - it is cast for both. We will have to get the correct coil and a new jacket - as well as the blanket cover (I hope that's what he said) to close off the coil opening for the water boiler.
The WATER coil is installed much higher so that is why the contractor had to fill the system with water (filling the sight glass). It's a good thing we didn't just keep running it - and void our warranty.
I would think this should fix the issues… but I am not all the way hopeful because there was still something wrong even before he filled it all the way up. Does anyone have additional thoughts about why it is cycling the way it is - or do you think this will fix the water and the heat?
And do you have advice for what I need the contractor to do? Does the piping also need to be fixed?
Thank you so much everyone! I enjoyed reading all of your comments!
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Here is the inside for anyone curious to see it still.
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Thank you so much for the detailed comments and the color-coded photo!
Do you still think this is going to be an issue with the other updates above?
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You have to get the coil thing fixed first and then:
1.Make sure they follow the piping instructions for the tankless coil. Automatic mixing valve, flow control valve and unions. Mixing valve should be dropped 12" below coil as drawing shows.
2. Install a skim tapping according to the manual and skim the boiler (again in the manual)
3. Pipe the Hartford loop correctly (again in the boiler manual)
4. Start the boiler and combustion test it, check gas pressure and adjust pressure control to cut off the burner at 1 1/2-2psi max. Test low water cut off. Set aqustat at 160 burner off wit 10 degree differential. Can be adjusted later if need be.
They should have included all this its all in the manual. Don't let them off the hook.
If it was me the tech (questionable) that came out and flooded the boiler to cover the tankless coil I would not let him back in the house.
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I have to ask.
If you have natural gas why are you running a tankless coil? Lack of room?
I switched over to a power vent 50 gal heater when I did my boiler.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Honestly it was upfront cost. We already had a combi-unit and it needed to be replaced. Every quote to split them up came back so much higher. This was our most economical option.
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I can respect that.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Your contractor purchased the wrong tankless heater for your steam boiler. You got the correct boiler but the supplier screwed up. The end section has both openings. The tankless coil is the wrong one.
The Left section with the coil openings is part number 311-800-014. That comes preassembled from the factory when you specify the tankless coil on either a steamer or water boiler. With a steamer you should get the Operating Control and Tankless Heater 35-S-29. This is the part available from supplyhouse.com WM Tankless heater Your contractor should be able to get that part from the their supplier. Your contractor is responsible for verifying the supplier's error before installing the boiler. With the incorrect coil you will never get hot water in the summer. You will get hot water in the winter whenever the boiler is making steam.
You can look at the openings in the exploded parts view. The round opening for the water boiler tankless coil is located above the water line of the steam boiler. the water in the steam boiler will not get that high so the coil will never get hot enough for a shower. If the water does not get up that high then there is no hot water until the boiler makes steam. The rectangle opening is at the water line so you get most of the coil in the water below the water line. When you make that water below the water line 150° or 160° there will be no steam, but the tankless coil is in the hot water and will get hot water all summer.
If the contractor made the mistake of installing the wrong equipment, and you can not get satisfaction from the contractor, you need to call Weil McLain Tech support and have the factory representative show up at the job with the contractor and get this taken care of.
CAUTION
Once the contractor gets the proper coil installed, they MUST install a proper automatic mixing valve to prevent scalding. In the summer the boiler water temperature may only be 160° to make 120° water to the shower. That same water will be 213° or higher when the boiler makes steam. That difference in water temperature that the tankless coil is submerged in will cause scalding water temperatures to leave the tankless coil. A proper mixing valve with an ASSE 1017 certified rating is necessary to prevent scalding water from leaving the boiler room and ending up in your shower or sink.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I’d say it wasn’t after all. I have zero confidence this outfit can fix what they messed up. Get a water heater from Home Depot.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
Tankless coils are often used, when gas capacity cannot support a boiler and a water heater. The incoming gas piping, the gas meter.....
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