Ladder standoffs for roofs
Not heating at all but I need to do some gutter and soffit work and the people here usually know about this stuff.
I am looking for a support to put on top of my extension ladder to support the ladder on the surface of the roof rather than leaning it up against the gutter. One roof is 8/12 and the other is about 2/12. The extension ladder I have is a 24' fiberglass type 1a Werner. I have to store the ladder on some hooks on my garage wall and the space is limited so the support will have to be easy to remove and install, I don't want to spend 10 minutes with u bolts and wing nuts to do a 5 minute job.
What do you use and like?
Comments
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To do soffit work I would want the ladder against the wall under the soffit ? Anyway they make those ladder adapters that span a window (to do work above a window) if put it at the top of the ladder it may reach the roof without the ladder touching the gutter. Seems that would be very awkward to do soffit work.
The way I would do it (have done it) is two ladders against the wall (often you can split an extension ladder), two ladder jacks and a Pick (or walk board, ladder planks) between the ladders. Set it up once and have a lot of range of comfortable movement.
They make protection boots for the end of the ladder where it touches the house wall.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System1 -
I use the same type of gadget @109A_5 mentioned. Even has a pain can hook on it. Stands off about a foot. And I have absolutely no idea where I bought it. Sporty's Tool Shop, maybe? It just uses clamps and bolts on the ladder — they go around the sides and a rung, for stability.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England1 -
The original Ladder Max is what I use. Very robust.
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Or perhaps something like this?
Yours, Larry
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I give it three stars out of five for installation. It could be me but I have put it on backwards a couple times. But once on, I feel very secure on the ladder.
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This one
is almost identical to the one I have and am very happy with.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
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This is part of what i need to access so leaning it on the wall isn't an option.
I suppose I could try to lean it here:
This is where I could lean it on the wall.
I would not do well standing on a plank on ladder jacks at that height.
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Yeah, I get it. To work where you drew the red line is short scaffold territory, with a fall barrier on the back side or all around. You could put a Pick between two step ladders and tie everything off so nothing can move.
The problem with supporting the top of a ladder with some kind of extension against that shallow pitched roof like that is it may damage the roof.
If it were me at my house and the scaffold was not possible, I would use two 2 x 4's to support the top of the ladder (kind of like an asymmetrical 'A' or an upside down 'V' when viewed from the side). The two 2 x 4's would span between the top (or near the top) of the ladder (attach securely) then to where the floor of the porch meets the house. At the house end the 2 x 4's would be at least twice as wide as the ladder for stability. The 2 x 4's would be cross braced so they can't shift or deform their shape. Something may be needed to protect the porch floor and the house wall. The assembly with the ladder could be slid or moved (left or right) to where is needed then tied off again.
Everything would be tied off to the structure or some other securely fixed point so your ladder assembly can't move.
I've never had a ladder that was tied off securely move unexpectedly on me and I have been in some sketchy places.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
That is a sketchy location. What's in the yard in front of it? More or less level? I have a rather nice but exceedingly heavy 16 foot stepladder (one of those contraptions — Werner I think) which would do, but not if the ground wouldn't support it.
I'm cheap. Well, not cheap, but let's say the budget is limited… even so for that application I would find a place which rented man lifts and take it for a couple of days…
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
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the 24' type 1a fiberglass ladder falls in that exceedingly heavy category. There are shrubs under it. If I were doing more than replacing the fascia and gutter i'd come up with something more elaborate. You can reach a lot of it from the porch but the fascia is not in the right place for that.
If the standoff can angle more down than at a right angle then it would plant itself better on the low pitch roof.
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For what it’s worth, I have had the feet of the ladder shift from poor positioning on a sloped ground and those horns saved me. they saddle the rungs and are held in place with pins. Tool less installation.
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For a commercial rooftop access, when the gutters were change, the installer put a steel angle iron frame inside the top of the gutter.
That could be hardly noticed from the ground. The frame was about 3' wide.
It kept the ladder from crushing the gutter and would help to tie the ladder down.
Once secured, the ladder would not scratch the gutter.
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In reality I think most of my issue is that my gutter is home depot grade 19 thousandths gutter. I want to find someone to run 32 thousandths for me. If anyone knows someone around Ann Arbor that runs gutter and returns messages please let me know.
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Sheet metal is generally measured by gauge.
If you ask an installer in thou, he's most likely not going to know what you want.
The guy that did my gutters was impressive. Not only did he really take his job seriously and was very good at it, he installed a 40' gutter alone on a 2nd story and I can't figure out how. But he did.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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There is a little hook that you put on a nail that holds one end of it. if the gutter is heavy enough gauge it will support itself over enough of that span to put it on the hook and lift up the other end. I plan to do something similar with some 2x4s clamped to the open rafters.
as far as I can see the standard thicknesses of aluminum coil are .019", .025", .027" and .032" which sit between 20 and 24 aluminum sheet metal gauge, some seem to line up with a gauge number, others do not.
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I thought the leaders he used seemed heavier than what I could get from Homer, but I also thought maybe I was just nuts
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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There are different thicknesses of downspout too though they are typically thinner than gutter because they are corrugated.
Home depot grade gutter is usually .019". They sometimes have "heavy duty" that is .025". Professionals usually use .027" or .032" coil stock.
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That doesn't look very high and calls out for a Little Giant-type folding ladder. It's a very handy tool if you ever have need for the investment. You can take it apart and use the two halves to support a plank, or stand it up right next to the roof. Some have leveling legs. Costco sells a discounted version that's probably tall enough, or you can rent one. On a single story house, you can do anything with one.
Little Giant moved their production to China, and their prices recently soared. I think Werner makes a USA version that's more economical and better USA quality.
They're very stable and versatile, and as we grow older we tend to appreciate our longevity in spite of past risks and value our continued survival more and more. So this may be an investment.https://www.wernerco.com/us/products/ladders/multi-ladders/MTSeries/MT-22
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I agree with @LongBeach Ed
A little giant type ladder is the best investment you can make. I bought one 30 years ago and it does 95% of what you need.
When I was working I used it for everything almost indestructible. It will make a 19' extension ladder, 6'-9' stem ladder and on stairs its unbeatable. Safest ladder you can use. Well worth the price.
A Co-worker had one and at first I thought it was a "gimmick" a little heavy etc but after I used his I loved it.
There is another way. take a 2 x 6 or 2 x8 and span it across the porch roof supports up under the gutter. Secure it with screws and lean the ladder against it.
Or clamp the 2 x 6 with big C-Clamps
Other techs drove around with 6', 8' 10' step ladders and an extension ladder on their vans I just had my little giant that did it all. If I needed another ladder, I would grab one at the shop.
One of the best things I ever bought.
I even set it up like an A frame with a chain fall dropping down through the middle and picked up a 500# pump.
The 19" extension ladder would get you on most roofs.
A regular 24' extension ladder overlaps 3' so you only get 21' out of that.
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I use the Werner version of the ladder @EBEBRATT-Ed and @Long Beach Ed are referring to — got it at Home Depot. Incredibly useful around the place!
Mine at least has levelling extensions on the legs, so that it can be used even on sloping or uneven ground — never mind things like staircases or other such unhandy spots…
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England1 -
I just bought the ladder max pro stabilizer and some levelok levelers for my ladder. pretty sure i paid more for that than for the ladder 25 years ago. the materials for the gutters and fascia are looking like they are going to cost far more than the materials to re-roof it did back then too.
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Oh, and I mic'd the coil of "trim coil" from home depot that I had left over from some siding work at my mom's house that has no indication of thickness on the box. Turns out it is 17 thousandths.
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So basically 26 gauge.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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This is what I have specified for all the technicians that have worked for me including all the service techs for Fireside Hearth & Home stores all over the country. I have a pair on my estimating van:
Ladder Stabilizer Standoff Brackets Silicone Elbows | Levelok
These do not fit inside the rungs of all brands. I put them in the third and fourth rungs from the top to approximate the 3ft extension above the point of roof contact. It stabilizes the ladder from swaying L-R yet holds it off the gutter. You set the brackets to the roof just over the gutter then extend the feet of the ladder to meet the 75 degree angle. Put your toes at the heels of the ladder. Extend your arms level forming a 90 degree angle at your armpit. If you're grabbing a rung, you have your 75 degrees regardless of roof pitch or height. Enjoy.
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Here was how I installed 40' gutter myself. Well technically 39'7"
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@Bob Harper I saw the tubes that shove in the rungs but I thought the armarflex seemed like it was going to be a problem on something that i wanted to sit in my garage for 30 years or so and be ready to use when i occasionally needed it. i thought the sticking tubing in the rungs seemed a little questionable too.
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The tubes into the rungs type are being used a lot more locally by chimney sweeps. They stabilize the ladder, hold it off the gutter, provide a place to hold items, and are light. Some of the more popular stabilizers add weight. Every pound you add at the top of a ladder feels like a person on there— very hard to handle.
As for the Armaflex, they give you black tape to patch it as it wears where it contacts the roof. You keep wrapping Gorillar tape or other tapes. If you're really worried about wearing through, wrap some fiberglass cloth around the bearing point then secure with G-tape. I've never heard of the tubes slipping out because you have to compress them to insert so they're always under spring tension. You actually have to yank and wiggle to remove them.
HTH
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Yeah, i just got to the part where i need to use the stabilizer and raising it with the ladder max with one person was a little questionable. Not only do they add weight but you have to extend the ladder a couple rungs to install them so you're making it bigger lever and adding weight.
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" Ladder Stabilizer Standoff Brackets with Silicone Elbows (Sold in Pairs) Complete Kit "
Looking at the picture I would think the ladder would return to its shortest position with them installed. Although may be awkward to store in a garage with them installed.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
there are 2 brackets at the top of the ladder that the fly section slides through
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@mattmia2 OK looking at the picture of your ladder I see what you mean. The Ad does not show enough of the top of the bottom half of that ladder and I think my ladder is constructed differently.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
Most mfrs. began adding metal 'C'-shaped retainers at the tip of the bed, which preclude you from installing the rung insertion-type before raising to the final height. Ladders without these clips allow you to install the standoffs at the 3rd and 4th rungs retracted, raise the ladder into position then extend the fly section as needed, set and adjust for pitch.
BTW, to get the 75.5 degree angle required by OSHA, put your toes at the heels of the ladder then extend you arms straight out level. If you can grasp a rung,( or be inline with the rungs) you are at the proper pitch. This is an old fire dept. trick. However, with stabilizers, you extend the ladder, rest the stabilizer on the roof off the gutter, then adjust the bed to the proper pitch. Once you do it a few times its not hard.
Another FD trick is to use the building, curb, or flower bed brick lining to foot the ladder if raising by yourself.
My favorite method of raising an extension ladder is the beam raise. Again, FD training for raising in an alley or narrow space, such as btw close buildings, avoiding tree branches or power lines, etc. You catch the heel of one beam, walk it up, then spin it around flat in position.
If working within 10LF of an energized Service Entrance cable to a building, you must notify the utility so they can wrap it or other alternatives.
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I'll have to look at it again. I assumed that the ladder max would interfere with the fixed section and fly section, but i'll have to look at it again, it might be able to be lowered fully with it installed. If that is the case, if I have a couple extra rungs to work with I could put the stabilizer a couple rungs down and that would reduce the raising force considerably.
If you only catch one foot that increases the downward force on that foot and makes it less likely to slide.
I have heard the put your palms on the rung to measure the angle thing many times but I am pretty sure you would have to measure where that lands on your arms and remember that because the angle will vary depending on how tall you are and how long your arms are.
I did not think about the stabilizer supporting the top of the ladder to make it easier to pick up the bottom and adjust the length or the feet or add a leveler. I actually don't like that the stabilizer grips so well, without it the top of the ladder finds the position where the feet are both supported. With the stabilizer you have to more intentionally find that position or it will move when you start climbing it.
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The arms outstretched to toes works for almost all of the population regardless of size or body type, which is why it is taught by the FD. Sort of a built-in ruler.
The first time you climb a stabilized ladder vs. non you'll ask yourself why did I wait so long.
As for the heels of the ladder, there are a gazillion ways to do that. Some new ladders come with the bracket factory mounted so you move the extended leg to the downhill side. I've used these levelers for 40 years now and they've never failed me. I love the swivel feet, which do have to be replaced every 10 yrs or so and keep the parts cleaned and oiled. I put them on a small ladder I use to go from one lower roof ridge to an upper or the cricket behind a chimney- the feet swivel gripping the roof for full support and don't slip without damage to the shingles.
You can use all sorts of mudsills, wedges, etc. I always carry one of these:
PiViT LadderTool | Ladder Leveler - ProVisionTools, Inc.
You can use it under a downhill foot, between the heels against the first rung or even just a level working platform or bench seat on a pitched roof or to set tools and parts on without them rolling off.
I've used these since '98 and they don't cause leaks in shingle roofs:
These work ok as long as the roof is dry and the shingles tight, not losing a lot of granules:
The Pitch Hopper | The Best Roofing Tool for Efficiency
If you do a lot of roof work, check with your local chimney sweep or attend their regional trade show to see all the latest cool gear, especially fall protection. They have an entire course they teach using ropes, climbing jumars, descenders, etc.
You get one chance to be work on fall protection or the lack thereof. I never fell but had many close calls and waaaaaaaaaay too many roofs I climbed free just using hands and feet that I should not have. Gone are the days playing Spiderman. We bake a high reach elevating platform or scaffolding into the job where needed or walk away from the sale. It's not work your life.
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