New Daikin - AC Mini Split
Hi Guys,
I have installed Daikin mini split for in-laws … before Electrican came while mowing they knocked line… unit evacuated itself!
I have re flared connection tested at 480 psi no leaks.
But I’m failing decay test
pulled vacuum to 90 microns, as soon as I isolate raise is fast ….
Setup:
Appion core removal tool
9cfm pump
Blue fat hose
not failing pressure test but it feels like a leak on vacuum.
Refrigerant in oil ?
Moisture ?
I wouldn’t expect raise that fast
and then best vacuum around 80 microns, unusual with the leak.
loosing my mind
Comments
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Pulling the dissolved refrigerant outta the oil. It takes a lot longer to pull a vacuum on oil in a system that was operating.
2 -
technically unit was not powered on, but yes it was open to environment
but would the refrigerant cause fast raise ?
mini split … I can’t pull from both sides.
and after couple hours I’m at 68-75 fluctuating, but dropping microns, and I bet if I isolate it will raise again
I guess I will leave this over night, I changed oil in pump0 -
There is probably no air, moisture or non condensables. You could be pulling refrig out of the oil. Is the compressor cold like refrig is boiling off?
1 -
are you suggesting to remove cover of ODU and infrared the compressor ?
What I’m confused about why would the raise be so fast if it was refrig. In oil
Just as an update 60-65 microns, and going down
Is it possible to pull vacuum like this with leak ?
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Most/all of the refrigerant oils I know of actually hold refrigerant in them once they've been exposed to them, powered or not. The oil in a pre-charged system is no different. In addition, you're evacuating several times more volume than the lineset alone. In diffusion airflow (basically when the pump quits 'blowing air out' & the tone changes), you're waiting on millions of air/nitrogen/water molecules to mosey on down thru the access teat, down the hose, & into the vacuum pump to be ejected. It takes a while.
1 -
appreciate expertise !!!
im leaving vacuum pump overnight0 -
at 49-55 microns jumping and going lower, I think this is my deepest vacuum ever ! Just talking to myself here
0 -
quick update
run vacuum overnight
Before I isolated i was at 33-37 micronsAfter isolating valve
10 minutes: 202 microns
20 minutes: 292 microns
25 minutes: 351 microns
40 minutes: 481 microns
how would you guys feel about this rise ?0 -
I've heard of leaks that are pressure (vacuum) dependent.
How confidant are you in your manifold, hoses, core extractor, etc.? I'm pretty sure my SMAN460 leaks internally, & I generally have to replace my Appion core tools every year or so.
Did you do a triple evac?
1 -
I put a new oring on Appion, I use probe directly at Appion.
I don’t think I could pull to 30 microns with leak, and considering that my rise improved dramatically overnight it would be unusual for a leak to change behavior.
and sure no confidence in tools ever lol
I did triple vac I’m just going to feed nitro again… change oil on pump, and vacuum for a bit more and I think I’m good to charge it at that point.
what do you guys think ?0 -
481 microns after 40 minutes………CHARGE IT.
4 -
it was still climbing :(
I did another nitro sweep, I will purge and vacuum and charge
thank you guys love you all0 -
I used to think those guys who said it'll stop rising were …stretching the truth. Then I actually saw it, held steady at IIRC 2xx μ for over half an hour, when I got tired of watching & started dumping juice in. Doesn't happen every time, though.
I would go ahead & charge it once you get it sucked down again.
0 -
Id charge it.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
1 -
I have had systems that you leak test and leak test and feel in your gut that it is ok. Then the vacuum gets pulled down and it doesn't seem right but you charge it and have no issues.
Sometimes the evacuation stuff gets out of hand.
I worked with some old supermarket refrigeration guys who told me about repairs and charging systems with with no evacuation or a short crappy evacuation.
The Ice cream was melting.
When you have $1000s of dollars in FF sitting around you have to do what you have to do.
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that is so true!
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I did a Daikin 18k single head a week ago and pressure tested at I think 575 psi. After an hour it dropped 15 psi. I couldn't tell if it was from my hoses, or the tank being hot and 90% of the line/ evap being in a cool space but I assumed it was good after checking with soapy water and pulled a vacuum. That went fast and normal but it was a new system so no oil
That said I really don't like my YJ hoses with valves built in. I just don't trust them under vacuum because anytime you touch them they leak.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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that’s why they make Vacuum Hoses!
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So what's the point in having a 4 port manifold if I can't use it for vacuuming? Or am I having a bad brain fart.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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charging hoses are NOT Rated for vacuum!
1 -
Ok so answer my question.
What's the point in that manifold if none of those hoses which are sold with it are rated for vacuum?
That doesn't make any sense.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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yes it does. As you said those hoses are rated for charging not for a vacuum. Buy hoses rated for a vacuum.
https://www.testequipmentdepot.com/yellow-jacket-16472-plus-ii-ca-heavy-duty-combination-chargingvacuum-hose-72-length-14-angle-x-12-flare.html?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=17349261488&gbraid=0AAAAAD_wb-ujCNFVznqV8yU2RumccqSZV&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkY6o9aipjgMVTV9HAR1tSiepEAQYASABEgKk5PD_BwE
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I know guys that always use the hoses with ball valves. They tell me they don't have any trouble…
I generally don't have any issues with the hoses themselves, just the various value-added ends (valves, low floss, etc.), so I get the plain ended ones & add the accessories I want. That way, I can pull the depressors out of 'em too.
For general use, low loss fittings on both, and a ball valve on the high side; everything comes off for evacuation and cores out with Appion tools. (Got a 4-port SMAN with internal micron gauge, plus several external ones, if used they go in with an Appion too.) Depending on the system, I'll nipple on with all three ¼ lines & vac with the ⅜. Never used a large-bore hose, other than the ⅜. That gitup took a refrigeration system to under 500μ in just 2-3 hours, including the 150# receiver!
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York back in the day (not anymore) made really good stuff and had excellent service manuals. The oil company I worked for was a York distributor back in the early days (30s, 40s &50s) long before I got there they did AC refrigeration a lot of belt drive open compressors. There was still some of that around when I started in the 70s.
I remember pulling out a York 2hp belt drive compressor because it was knocking. We took it apart at the shop and it needed a connecting rod which we had in stock!!. Put it in and it was a little tight on the crank so one of the old timers shimmed the crank with newspaper. Put it back in no more knock. Probably lasted a little while.
But we had piles of old York service manuals which had a ton of good information.
They always wanted the vac pumps hooked up with copper tubing flared. That old equipment ran and ran and ran.
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Those won't work with that manifold, all except the vacuum connection are 1/4" not 1/2".
Why would they sell a $400-500 manifold with hoses that you can't use with it? Seems strange?
Are you suggesting that 4 port manifolds are just a gimmick and not really practical in the real world?
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Why do techs spend $1000 or more on digital, I have NO idea.
Charging hoses are not rated for vacuum use, they can and do leak. I do not use my gauges when pulling a vacuum. Core removal tool, Micron gauge, vacuum hose and pump.
On bigger systems maybe 2 setup's.
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4 hose manifolds can work if you have good hoses, but it's not the best practice. @pecmsg is correct. The best way to evacuate a system is with the vacuum pump connected directly to the system with 3/8" or larger vacuum rated hoses connected with a core remover tool. A four hose manifold can work, but it will take much longer and you have a lot more connections that can leak under vacuum. I don't even use my manifold gauges anymore. I use probes and a charging tee when charging and a dedicated vacuum setup.
2 -
just and update, I did another overnight vacuum
I don’t think I have a leak
I’m at two hours now a 641 microns and going up 0.1 sec ( started with 50 )
so things did improve a little …
I will do one more nitrogen sweep, vacuum maybe one more and I will send it0
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