New steam boiler - newbie help

Gab

I have steam boiler (installed 2002), long story short, I accidently overflowed the system. I was advised that I need a new boiler due to leaking. The contractor came and measured the radiator to size the system. The estimate is very vague and states that:

This price includes all materials and labor to install (1) PEG-40 78,000 BTU Weil McLain steam boiler with 2 new Honeywell heat only thermostats. 

What additional questions should I be asking about the install for this and potentially getting other quotes? When overflowing, water was coming out of the vents on the main pipe.

Someone else came out and said it didn't looked piped correctly.

Thanks!

ethicalpaul

Over-flowing a boiler does not harm it. But depending on this "leaking" it might have accidentally indicated that your boiler has a hole rotted through it (the typical failure case for all boilers).

Where was it leaking?

Your boiler is piped fine in the photos you shared.

They are wanting to replace your existing boiler with the exact same model which might be OK, although it's very very common for the existing boiler to be oversized. Did they share with you the total "EDR" or "square feet of radiation" that they calculated? That's the total sq ft of radiator in your house, and that is how you size a boiler, so it's good that they measured your radiators.

Jamie Hall

I don't see a problem with the piping — or at least not the near boiler piping.

Why do you need new thermostats? A thermostat is just a temperature activated switch…

And is the boiler realty leaking? At this point I've got say I think you need a second opinion…

Gab

There was water around the boiler, he mentioned that the insid3 burner (?) was rusted in 3 or 4 places. The other flaws pointed out was a murky site glass, a rusted pipe, and then water in the burner tube. I tried to recreate what he showed me, but not sure of the inside.

Definitely trying to get second opinions, but since we are in the middle of a heat wave, everyone is dealing ac emergencies. Thought I could take some time to learn and be more educated when having others come out.

EdTheHeaterMan

The individual that installed your existing boiler followed the instructions properly. That is rare to find someone that knows how to get it right the first time. When you get the replacement boiler (if needed) the piping should look very close to what you already have. Sometimes you may get someone that has no clue and will redesign the piping because it is less expensive, Don't let that happen!!!

As mentioned by others overfilling a boiler will not make it go bad. overfilling the boiler may have discovered a leak that you otherwise might not have found, but you want to be sure that you really have a leak and not just a defective steam vent the let water out on the floor as a result of overfilling. Second opinion is always a good idea. If you live near a steam boiler expert, chances are you will find one in the "Find A Contractor" link at the top of this page.

Using the same size as the old one may also be a mistake. If the previous contractor selected the wrong size boiler, you will want to correct that with the replacement boiler. If you even need a new boiler.

STEAM DOCTOR

You can easily check this yourself. Fill the boiler until the glass is full and then another 45 to 60 seconds. Then stick your head under the boiler and see if you see water dripping. You don't need any degrees or licenses to do this. This will give you the critical information that you need

Gab

Thank you aĺl! I was able to track down the original company who installed it and they are coming out. Regardless, it needs a little TLC

EBEBRATT-Ed

Hopefully the old company still has someone that knows steam.

dabrakeman

You can and in my opinion should total up the radiator sqft edr in you home yourself particularly if the contractor did not share the radiator by radiator details with you. It is not hard and then you know for sure whether you are getting the right size boiler. Below is one of many cheat sheets to use. Send photos of your radiators to this forum if you have any questions or doubts about the measures.

Steam EDR Calculation Sheets Dunkirk.pdf

Gab

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1859430#Comment_1859430

Thank you for this! Learned so much. My calc was 80544 if everything measured correctly.

Gab

The person who installed it 23 years ago luckily was still there and came out. Not leaking, but still quoting replacement vs what is needed to repair.

Gab

ethicalpaul

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1859725#Comment_1859725

What was your total EDR (sq. ft. of steam)? Avoid working in BTU, it's a recipe for confusion

Gab

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1859729#Comment_1859729

335 6

ethicalpaul

Look for a steam boiler with a "Sq Ft of Steam" rating of 300-330. Always round down to the smaller boiler if you land between two of them. Others will disagree with me on this, no doubt.

EdTheHeaterMan

With the fact that most steam heated buildings were sized with radiators that could heat the building to 85° on the coldest day of the year, with the windows open… There is a whole story about that… I believe that those old homes are much better insulated today, with new windows and other energy conserving measures added to lower fuel costs, you will find that the 30% factor built into that NET AHRI sq foot boiler rating is too conservative, so Paul has a point. The opposite direction may also apply if all the old asbestos insulation was removed from all the steam pipes, and no one has replaced that insulation. then a opinion for going up a size may have merit because you size a steam boiler to the attached radiation, not the building's heat loss. And since all those uninsulated steam pipes will be removing heat from the steam at a faster rate than an insulated pipe will, than you may need a bigger boiler.

The best advise is to make sure all the steam mains are insulated. and select the smaller boiler.

cook_ch

Consider asking for a service call/inspection first  to evaluate whether the boiler truly needs replacement or just repiping and cleaning. Whether you’re out fishing or navigating unfamiliar waters, lowrance offers a sense of security that comes from having the right tools. Their fish finders and GPS systems aren’t just tech; they’re lifelines when you’re on the water. The screens are clear, the signals are strong, and it feels like you have an extra pair of eyes helping you.

dabrakeman

If I am not mistaken the 30% pickup accounted for uninsulated steam pipes but nonetheless I agree you would be looking for something on the shy side of 335 ideally. WM EG-40 (321sqft) would be appropriate or Peerless 63-03 (308sqft).

ethicalpaul

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1859779#Comment_1859779

If that were the case, they would say "don't include this 30% if your pipes are insulated".

That standard assumes insulated pipes which makes it even more outrageous. The fact is that uninsulated pipes just don't have much radiation area. It's easy, if you want short cycling, higher pressures overall, and more up-front and operational cost, round up to a larger boiler.

dabrakeman

Agree. Recovery time from setbacks if you do them is a key factor in determining pickup needs, separate from operating piping losses. Insulated pipes seem to be estimated at around a10% loss. The rest of the 30% is attributed to sizing optimized to reduce recovery time from a setback. If you have insulated pipes and don't do setbacks or don't care how long a recovery from a setback may take on design days then reducing "pipe loss and pickup" factor down to 10% may be reasonable.

mattmia2

A boiler bigger than the emitters isn't going to make you recover from setback faster, it will just make it short cycle. Pickup factor is simply the edr of the piping which unless you have very long piping runs is likely under 10%.

dabrakeman

https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/handle/2142/4349

One can make their own conclusions from the study posted here years ago but it was arguing that in the case of steam that pick up plus pipe losses significantly greater than 30% were of no benefit but when significantly lower (10%), at least for the configurations and methodologies used in the study, 6deg F recovery time at design temps could be increased.

https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/items/5002

Shane_2

While the pick-up factor is always interesting, What I want to know-

Why did the original quote include 2 heat only thermostats for a single steam boiler?