Daikin 2-Zone - Which port to charge? - Instructions confusing

WillGreenlee

Hello! I recently installed a Daikin 2-Zone Cirra. It's been a massive headache. But longer story for another day. Right now I have 2 simple questions. Which port can you/should you recharge the refrigerant? I have the refrigerant and the gauges and the vacuum pump and such. EVERY post online says to add to the low-pressure gas line. But the instructions clearly state "Fill from the liquid pipe in liquid form." But the liquid line has no service port on this pump (model 2MX18AXVJU). And the instructions show no diagram of any connection on the liquid side. Am I just misunderstanding something?

And next question, not mentioned in the manual. For a 2-zone system, does it matter which "room" I am adding it to?

If you squint you can see the stamped labels the left of the picture showing "liquid/gas/room". My gauge in this picture was currently connected to the Room B GAS line.

ratio

Liquid (bottle upside down) into the suction port. Probably doesn't matter which head, as long as the entire system is operating.

ratio

Yo might have on open a door to find the suction port, the line you're on is a mixed-phase line & will be at discharge pressure.

pecmsg

do you have the certificates needed to handle refrigerants?

Leak detector?

Nitrogen?

Vacuum pump?

Vacuum gauge?

Scale?

pedmec

Both lines are on the low pressure side of the system, which is why they only give you one service port. You will get the same reading if they gave you a service valve on the line labeled "liquid". The TEV is in the condenser so the line labeled liquid is the outlet of the TEV which during the operating sequence will be mostly liquid even thou its starting its phase change.

if you have a system operating with 410a refrigerant, you have a blended refrigerant. Because you have a blend you have (2) refrigerants working together but they have different boiling points. if you charge in vapor there is a real chance that you will fractionalization, the separation of the refrigerants. You can have one entering the system more than the other so the composition will not be correct.

to avoid that you turn the cylinder upside down and allow the refrigerant to leave the cylinder as a liquid. but this doesn't mean to allow liquid into the system. you meter it in with your gauge or you can buy a tool that will help you with that.

WillGreenlee

Okay thanks for all the responses. I will charge from that port. With the bottle upside down (per instructions). It IS 410a.

I have the refrigerant, scale, gauges. Not the rest.

I had no interest in doing this myself, but the professional quotes kept growing and growing and I had most of the equipment already. And now that I installed it myself, no company will even touch the system (I tried calling a bunch of them).

My duplex is coming up on 100 years. Brick and plaster. I've found that most contractors just aren't going to take the care to do less damage to the overall house for an install like this. (Not necessarily against them, they're just trying to get the job done).

Long story short, my current tenant already has a lease that includes air conditioning. Unfortunately that 1979 forced air AC system needed to be ripped out to do some foundation work, so I ended up with mounting bills and this I thought was my best option. Ok complaining over lol.

ratio

If you didn't vac it down, it isn't going to work.

JUGHNE

Didn't this come with a charge in the outdoor unit?

Usually enough in the unit for the 2 indoor units depending upon lineset length.

GGross

If you don't pull a proper vacuum we will see you back here in a few weeks/months, just make sure to start the topic with that bit of info. Seriously though handling R-410A requires a license for a reason, there are just too many things that you don't know you don't know. If you are dead set on DIY slow it down, get ALL the required tools and follow all best practices, heck you can even take the EPA608 test for not too much money and be all above board. If not and you skip a step, just make sure you have plenty of cash on hand to buy a whole new system before next summer.

pecmsg

at least not for long

WillGreenlee

Oh yes I also have vacuum pump.

I think one of my major errors was not buying a DIY kit. I went with Daikin because I heard they were really solid. But half way through install I could see why it was not DIY. A lot of items in the instructions say to use "field supply", which I didn't have, so had to go find. And also I read the instructions through and through multiple times before install, but you can see above from the refrigerant refilling section…that is the ENTIRE section, so a lot of it is assuming you're a licensed professional. I AM quite experienced with refrigerant and recharging AC but only on cars. That's how I had a bunch of the equipment. So I get the concepts.

So now we're past my original question. The actual problem right now is that I've got reallllly reduced heating and cooling. Basically not working at all. It's holding pressure, about 150 PSI, so it's not like it all leaked out (but I'm rechecking it this week and I told the tenant to hold off on using it). So assuming no leaks…

I was researching how to recharge it because I'm concerned I contaminated the system with all the air from the non-precharged line sets because I for sure did not follow the pump-down procedure correctly. In this case, it was totally my fault, I 100% admit to this, I misread this part of the directions and it was pretty embarrassing. I opened the wrong stop valve on the pump at the wrong time, and once it was done it kind of turned into a procedural mess and I wasn't sure how I could CTRL+Z. So I wanted to have the refrigerant/air/or whatever it is in there now to be recaptured (not yet found someone to do that) and then I was going to recharge it from fresh, (after properly pulling a vacuum and refilling with the exact amount per the pump specifications.) (The line set is not over the Daikin specified 98 feet for that charge btw, one line is 15 feet and the other is 33 feet).

The condenser fan is running, and I can hear the compressor click on. Also both interior head units power on and blow air. The head units aren't setting any error codes with the light, and the pump PCP isn't setting any error codes (surprisingly hard LED to find, again, no instructions on this). The fact that both head units don't have barely any heating and cooling makes me think there might be a refrigerant charge/pressure issue or contamination.

I have an appointment scheduled with a larger HVAC company May 29, and I only think I got the appointment was because the AI phone scheduler didn't question when the unit was installed. All other companies (including Daikin certified installers) have told me NOPE and also don't have anyone they'll recommend.

If I could figure out the steam boiler, which took months of troubleshooting and help from books, this forum, and the Dan H. seminar, I think I can get this thing figured out. Thanks for all the tips!

pedmec

You have said that you don't have a leak because it's at 150 psi and it doesn't move. What do you mean by that. Is that with a nitrogen pressure test or are you looking at the refrigerant pressure in the system?

pecmsg

questions about the charge, pull it and weigh it!

In your case recover what’s in there

Quick sweep and weigh in a new charge!

mattmia2

if you didn't evacuate the lineset before you opened the service valves you will have noncondensables and moisture in the system. the noncondesables will significantly affect performance. the moisture can clog or disintegrate the drier(s). you will have to remove the charge/air mixture, replace the drier(s), re leak check and evacuate the system, then recharge with the correct weight of refrigerant.

ratio

Recover all the charge, quick leak check (hold 250-350 lbs for an hour), vac it down & hold under 500 microns without climbing for 15-30 minutes, recharge with virgin refrigerant. Mini splits don't typically have filter dryers (the oil is hydrophobic, not hydroscopic) so that vac & hold is important.

pecmsg

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1856050#Comment_1856050

no driers in minis, just fine screens.