Steam heating system. Leaking pipe connection

IGonza

Hello,

Today I've discovered some water on the floor and made a few pictures. It's a steam bases heating system and I think it's not that old. Visually black colored pipes look much better than others. I guess when the boiler was installed only the pipes around it were replaced. On 1st picture there are 2 vertical pipes: black, that looks newer and another one behind it. I believe they are 2" size.

There is threaded coupling between them. The rest of the images show the same coupling from different angles. My questions

1. Is it just very old and rusted out? Or there could be another reason for this damage? (I can see other horizontal pipes that look not good. )
2. Is there any other fix except a replacement? There are no unions close to that section and it's a tight space because of a water heater staying next to the boiler. So I believe it will be a challenge to disassemble it.
3. On first image, there is an elbow goes from vertical to horizontal right direction. There is something between the elbow and a pipe that goes to the right. What is it? Was it used like an extender or it has different purpose there? Maybe it's a size reducer?
4. Is that rusted pipe/coupling pips also a black pipe or it's a different type of material?

Thanks

Jamie Hall

Well that's a bore. All the pipes in your photos are black iron; just some of them are newer than others.

The "something" which you mention — if I'm looking at the same something — is just a close nipple, a standard short piece of pipe with male threads on both ends used to connect two fittings — in this case an elbow and a T.

Now you do indeed have a leak, rather a small one, in one of those threaded joints. There are lots of reasons why a threaded joint might leak, but only one permanent way to fix it: disassemble it, clean up all the threads, and reassemble it. Without seeing much more of the piping, I can't tell you how much disassembly might be required, but I can assure you it's possible: it was all threaded together, and it can all be unthreaded. There is, however, a temporary (meaning anywhere from months to decades) fix which might work. I think this may be the horizontal in a Hartford Loop (can't telll without seeing the rest of the near boiler piping) and, if so, is under very low pressure. If you can get all of the surfaces involved very clean — right down to bare metal — careful application of the appropriate JB Weld epoxy may well do the trick.

Grallert

There's gotta be two unions, one one the black painted pipe above for the equalizer out of frame and one on the horizontal run for the Hartford loop, also out of frame. I betcha a dollar that close nipple is rotten.

IGonza

Thank you for all response. I'm adding more images to display the whole picture.

It definitely looks like the nipple between new and old pipe is rotten.

About the unions: 1st one is on Front picture above the T. I don't think it helps me anyhow.

Second union is only on the Back, pretty far from the bad nipple. There is another pipe that almost lays on the floor, below that second union. There is a second that looks very rusted, but somehow it's not leaking (yet).

So, as I understand, my plan is to disassemble second union and unscrew section by section until I get to that union. I will probably need to cut the water supply line that is connected to the horizontal part on the Left picture.

If I disassemble everything from the second union to the leaked union, should I replace all the pipes, elbow and unions or just that bad nipple and the bad looking pipe on the floor?

Can I replace them with small diameter? If so (I saw a video where that loop had smaller pipes), what is the minimum allowed size?

About that "something": no, I think we're talking about different things. It is visible on Left picture. The bottom elbow - it looks like there is male to female adapter inserted in the elbow first and then the horizontal pipe is connected.

Front:

Back:

Left side:

Mad Dog_2

Why go smaller? I install full size tees with bushings & never less than 3/4" Boiler drain. Mad Dog

Mad Dog_2

20250320_193056.jpg

IGonza

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1852802#Comment_1852802

I was talking about Hartford loop. I saw this video

That boiler has much smaller in diameter pipes and also they are copper.

Smaller and copper - this would be a lot simpler for me to do, than dealing with black pip cutting and threading.

Is copper a valid option here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeB-NO1ZYKo

mattmia2

you can buy threaded nipples

EBEBRATT-Ed

You can use copper on anything below the boiler water line. I would not put a copper adapter into the boiler however. I would come out with a nipple and a black coupling , tee or elbow.

ethicalpaul

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1852802#Comment_1852802

Because:

• that's how the dead men designed it
• smaller pipe is less expensive, letting you quote jobs cheaper getting more jobs, or take more profit for yourself.
• smaller pipe is easier to work with, taking less time (and time is money, see above item)
• that's how the manual says to do it
• smaller pipe does the job perfectly well with no benefit at all gained from larger pipe

(reasons sorted in order of increasing importance).

Is copper a valid option here?

Everything in a video by Gordo / All Steamed Up is a valid option. I have never once seen a single unwise or foolish choice in any of their videos, and that's quite a record, both because they have a lot of videos, and because I'm a picky ****

mattmia2

the bigger the pipe and tee is in the hartford loop, the more surface of water there is to collapse steam and cause water hammer.

ethicalpaul

Steam doesn't go down there but I like the thinking

mattmia2

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1853028#Comment_1853028

not unless it is equalizing. but that is the reason for the street ell or close nipple.

but i agree, the water at the bottom of vertical pipes without venting should bot be exposed to steam.

Long Beach Ed

In reality and practice, those pipes may be very difficult and close to impossible to unthead. Or they may be come apart easily. Even with two large wrenches it may be very difficult. I've used acetylene torches and still couldn't do it at times.

Always be prepared with options if you can't get stuff apart, and those options are breaking off fittings and replacing pipe and possibly cutting and threading pipe in place.

And watch those boiler tappings. Protect them from shock.

Mad Dog_2

Oh..The Deadmen were cool and actually knew what they were doing? Thats a first for you. Why would you recommend him reinstalling smaller size pipe? And, how does he flush the returns with no tee or boiler drains? Mad Dog

Mad Dog_2

The Size of the equalizer & Hartford Loop are non issues as far as banging. Height of the Hartford Loop & the length of the nipple going in to the tee does..matter...Mad Dog

mattmia2

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1853379#Comment_1853379

if the diameter of the pipe is bigger than the surface of the water in that pipe that you are trying to minimize by using a close nipple or street ell is going to be bigger.

Mad Dog_2

Never seen that cause a problem as long as Hartford Loop tee is at proper height & a close nipple is used. Mad Dog

mattmia2

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1853383#Comment_1853383

unless the delta p between the return and supply is enough to push steam in to the return that piece of pipe should be filled with air anyhow.

ethicalpaul

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1853377#Comment_1853377

I do agree with so much of what they said and did. But you get all mad at me if I dare suggest that something they said might not be true. I have to call it like I have seen it with my own eyes. <shrug>

Now regarding this person, I don't think I advised them to reinstall anything. If someone has 2" equalizer already installed, they should leave it. I was answering your specific question "why go smaller than full diameter for the equalizer?"

If you didn't like my list of reasons, feel free to speak to them. Or you can continue with the ad hominem attacks. Either way is fine by me, but I do find it a little depressing and confusing why you keep doing that. I've tried to be friendly, humorous, earnest, and yes sometimes sarcastic. I've run out of things to try, Matt.

Mad Dog_2

"SOMETIMES sarcastic" ??? Mad Dog

ethicalpaul

Yes sometimes, but I try not to out of respect for this site, Erin, and you and others. It may be that the way I ask questions is seen as sarcasm, but it's usually not meant that way—it's primarily so I can understand the sometimes subtle distinctions between various practices, etc.

Of course, you stamp a LOL reaction on almost all of my posts, which if I had to guess I would say that reaction was meant as a way to laugh with someone's joke, but I have this feeling that you use it to belittle me.

HeatingHelp.com

Sarcasm and fighting is distracting and harms this community. Stop it. We're here to learn from one another, not tear each other down.

I'm sorry this derailed your discussion @IGonza. Let's all move on.

IGonza

Thank you all for the responses. My plan A is to replace the bad pipes with exactly the same sizes and lengths. It will be in a couple weeks. And I may get back here if something goes wrong.

Thanks again for your help.