needing some help identifying some of the piping in my steam system

WilliamGwiazdowski

I have a 1934 colonial with a two pipe steam system that appears to be a Webster type system. I have a Webster boiler return trap along with Webster F&T trap in the basement along with Webster radiator valves and Webster radiator traps as well. System works just fine I'm just curious about identifying some of the piping. Have a around 30-year-old Burnham V7 boiler with Beckett AFG burner that is in great shape and no issues other than maintenance and normal little things. I am going to be switching from a tankless coil for hot water to a heat pump water heater and I'm considering running the condensate line from the water heater along the wet return that runs along the perimeter of the basement over to my sump pit I'm wondering if this is okay. When the system is running the wet return doesn't get hot at all. I'm going to be running PEX for the condensate line. I'm attaching some photos and video of my system and I just need some more information on piping etc. I already have all of Dan's books, Lost Art of Steam Heating revisited, the companion to the lost art book as well as his EDR book.

https://youtu.be/GMJnlPZDvyo?si=WQAkoWyscO2PSxwP

Steamhead

That's a classic Webster "Type R" system. However, the unit to the right of the Return Trap is an air trap, not an F&T trap. It serves as the only air vent in the entire system.

Look at the ends of the steam mains. I bet you find radiator traps piped between the steam mains and the dry (overhead) returns. These vent air from the mains quickly, so the steam distributes faster, and route the air from the mains into the dry returns, where it is vented at the air trap.

If the wet return never gets hot (it shouldn't), I see no problem with running that condensate drain as you describe.

WilliamGwiazdowski

Yes on the ends of the mains I do have radiator traps. I really appreciate the info! Thank you so much!

WilliamGwiazdowski

It looks like the original boiler to the house may have been a snowman as well. I was able to find the footprint of it in the basement right next to where my current boiler is installed.

mattmia2

looks like the header from the old boiler is still there.

WilliamGwiazdowski

So that would be the giant piece of cast iron wrapped in asbestos after the 90 from the riser off of the boiler?

Long Beach Ed

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1847953#Comment_1847953

That would be a header.

Intplm.

Running the condensate drain from the hybrid water heater to a sump pit is fine. However, do not incorporate the drain into the heating system as mentioned?(Your descriptions mentioned are a little confusing.) The drain should be separate and should be pitched and gravity flow to a floor drain mop/utility sink or sump pit. From some of your description and video it looks like you can do it this way. Don't use pex for this as pex is harder to work with and needs a lot more support when installed. I would use PVC as it is more rigid when used for gravity drains.

If you need to pump the condensate. A type of clear Tygon tubing is best. It also needs a lot of support but is clear showing what's flowing, more flexible then pex and has often been recommended by some condensate pump manufacturers.

WilliamGwiazdowski

I'm just going to run the condensate line alongside the wet return to get over to the sump pit. The condensate outlet on the hybrid water heater is high enough where I can just use gravity to drain the condensate to my sump. I'm not going to incorporate it into the heating system at all. And I'm thinking my run will work just fine.

Jamie Hall

Now refreshing to see a vapour system which hasn't been butchered! A little maintenance now and then and that will outlast you and your children's children…

WilliamGwiazdowski

I'm also over the summer thinking of doing some maintenance such as replacing the radiator valves that don't work anymore getting some fresh cage units for the radiator traps and traps in the basement and then I think she'll be running at her peak performance

mattmia2

This are probably vapor valves on the radiators so you probably want to rebuild rather than replace. They are designed to be adjustable to only allow as much steam in to the radiator as the radiator can condense.

Jamie Hall

Argh! Don't replace the valves the "don't work". Repair and refurbish them — not hard to do — but they are an integral part of the system!

Mad Dog_2

Sir, you should address that Friable ACM on the piping soon. Everyone in the house is breathing those asbestos fibers that go airborne very easily. Please get it properly removed. If you are in the Tristate Area I have a fantastic company to recd. Mad Dog

WilliamGwiazdowski

Removing the asbestos is definitely on the list. I'm in Connecticut.

WilliamGwiazdowski

Would Tunstall have rebuild kits for the valves?

Jamie Hall

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1848016#Comment_1848016

Possibly. If there are actually broken or damaged parts, which isn't likely. Much more likely they simply need to be disassembled and thoroughly cleaned and polished, with a little light lube.

mattmia2

I don't think the tunstall kits preserve the metering function, you'd have to install the kit with orifice plates, if they even have one for your valve.

WilliamGwiazdowski

I have Webster valves so I would have to figure out what I need when that time comes

Mad Dog_2

They go in to Connecticut too. DM me & I'll give u the info. Mad Dog

WilliamGwiazdowski

Thanks I'll have to get some info so it can hopefully be done after heating season

WilliamGwiazdowski

My radiator valves look like this.…

I would imagine that the top portion unscrews allowing access to the guts?

mattmia2

Those might be packless valves where there is a brass bellows that makes the seal at the stem.

mattmia2

The tunstall kit turns it in to a trv. If you just want to rebuild it you probably just need to clean it up and replace the washer:

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/192503/webster-sylphon-valve-rebuild

WilliamGwiazdowski

Most of them in the house spin around freely and don't do anything The one that is in the downstairs hallway I can't really get to turn, this evening I turned it clockwise to shut it off and now it won't turn back on and so now that radiator is off however doesn't really matter to me. The only valves in the house that actually work are in the sun porch and attic. The one that is in the attic is a bigger one.

WilliamGwiazdowski

There are a few I believe where the handles spin on the shaft and do nothing as well

Jamie Hall

Yes — you will probably have to take the handle off. Then the big bonnet nut, which is an octagon, not a hex, should unscrew. However… it may be obstinate. In fact, it may be VERY obstinate. But — whatever you do, use a crescent wrench, a good one. Use a regular hex open end to hold the body still (on the hex below the main body).

Before you do all that, though, see if you can get the stems to turn. On the ones which just go round and round, have you checked to see if the socket in the handle is still good? or did it get rounded off at some point? On the ones that won't move at all, try a bit of WD-40 or PB Blaster or something of the sort on the stem at the bonnet nut and try wiggling them just a little — but don't strip the handle.

mattmia2

replacing the handle is easy. i don't really see why they would spin around if the handle isn't broken

WilliamGwiazdowski

I will definitely have to go through them all over the summer there are some rooms that I would like to shut off that don't get used for other than storage and don't need to be heated