Another pressuretrol question.

danmayer175

So my system has issues. But it works. I do get wet steam noises, but only after firing for something like 35 or 40 minutes. Short firings = no problem. Long firing = whooshing and banging. A few days ago I built the handbulb rig posted in videos here and adjusted the pressuretrol to cutout at 1.5 psi (it cuts in at 0.4 psi). That reduced the duration of the morning firing, but not enough to prevent wet steam syndrome. I am thinking about adjusting it lower to see if I can cut the cycle short enough to "outrun" the accrual of water. Maybe set it to cut in at 0.2 psi.

Jamie Hall

Slow return — or almost clogged

danmayer175

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1843427#Comment_1843427

I'm pretty sure there is some clogging in the return, but does that contribute to wet steam in the main?

delcrossv

One pipe or 2 pipe?

EBEBRATT-Ed

I think what @Jamie Hall is thinking is that you would get wet steam if the boiler piping is not correct or the boiler water is surging you would get banging throughout the entire cycle. Getting the wet steam after a long run could mean sluggish returns because the condensate is backing up into the main if the returns are slow. When the returns drain while the boiler is off then you don't get banging on the next start.

Not conclusive but is a possibility.

danmayer175

I think the clogged return explains a lot. I can only access it through the drain cock at bottom of wet leg. Is there a snowball's chance I can overfill the boiler, open that drain cock and flush out the clog?

PXL_20250119_191731160.jpg

delcrossv

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1843491#Comment_1843491

That's your best bet with the way it's presently piped. You may want to remove that drain cock and put in a plug hand tight for the fill and flush as those hose cocks have really small orifices and you need lots of flow to push stuff out.

Or replace the hose cock with a full size ball valve.

ethicalpaul

wet returns don’t clog like a toilet that can be freed. There’s only distilled water in there not some single blockage that can be flushed out leaving clean pipe inside.

The pipe rusts forming these large nodule growths of oxide all over the inside of the pipe.

If the pipe is indeed blocked (and I am by no means convinced it is) then you must replace the blocked part

Does your water line drop? When it does, how fast does it move? A slow return would show a looong steady decline while steaming. Any other behavior is something else

tcassano87

you can definitely drain it from there and try to flush it out, a lot of times like someone else has said you need to replace where the clog is. Luckily for you is very accessible and a pretty easy replacement. Definitely some issues with your near boiler piping and the header is way too low & could definitely contribute to the steam carrying water

mattmia2

oh, i didn't see your near boiler piping. the water is coming as a liquid or droplets out of your boiler.

does the main/main extension slope toward the drip? i notice someone put some blocks under the wet return it would appear thinking it needs to slope.

danmayer175

@ethicalpaul "A slow return would show a looong steady decline while steaming"

It does that. Regardless of starting water level, about 40 minutes in I get those half second cutouts as level bobs into lwco limit. But it almost never cuts out for good in that situation. It's like some condensate is getting back, just not fast enough to makeup for all the carryover. And I think I've discovered that all the water hammer is in the last runout, right next to the wet return drop.

mattmia2

if the end of the main is filling with condensate that will hammer. the added pressure from the weight of the condensate might be making it return faster as it stacks up. you could pour some water in the vent fitting and see how long it takes to get to the boiler.

ethicalpaul

just not fast enough to makeup for all the carryover.

What do you mean carryover?

If your water quality is decent and your piping isn't insane there should be no carryover at all. If you are surging then all bets are off, no system can return carryover fast enough. Just don't carry over.

danmayer175

Maybe carry-over is the wrong word. There are two stages of water loss. Basically any water more than 1/4 up the glass disappears within a minute or two of firing. I don't know if it gets to the main or just dances around in the header and the riser, but it definitely leaves the boiler. So whether I fill to 1/2 glass or 3/4, she settles into 1/4 real quick. Then slowly drops from there, eventually hitting cutout about 45 minutes in. But she never cuts out completely - only for 1/2 second and then recovers. The whooshing and banging starts about 35 minutes in. Eventually, after a cool down, water level returns to where it was when I started.

ethicalpaul

But you said it was a loooong slow steady drop, now you are saying there is a fast drop. I ask very careful questions, it's useful to answer them carefully 😉

A fast drop is probably carryover, which is surging, which is bad water causing a lot of water getting thrown up into the piping.

As long as that is happening, ignore everything else that you think it might be and fix it.

Here is an old old short video of mine showing surging due to bad water:

https://youtu.be/WSRvvNQ5WLc

Jamie Hall

Some boilers — including Cedric — show a remarkably quick drop on coming up to steam. In Cedric's case, it's about two inches. The water level then stabilises.

Where does it go? Mostly backs into the wet returns and drips — surprising how much volume there is for even a few inches of rise — and partly it's a slight tilt in the water level inside the boiler itself, as steam flow will do that.

ethicalpaul

I hate to always be contrary, really I do but given how little water is turned to steam at any given moment and how fast water level equalizes I am highly skeptical of the steam tilt