I Need 2 wire thermostat that also wirelessly controls a Taco RMB circulator.

Billiambob · February 15

I need a 2 wire thermostat (battery powered OK) that also wirelessly closes a dry contact relay to turn on a Taco RMB circulator.

It would be really really great if it had two more 2 wire thermostats that also wirelessly closed the same a dry contact relay to turn on the Taco RMB circulator.

Thank You

Bill

ratio · February 15

Not quite sure what you are meaning, a heat only thermostat? Heat/cool? Two sources of heat (e.g. heat pump & radiant floor)? Please describe the equipment you have & how you want it to operate.

EdTheHeaterMan · February 15

Wireless thermostats are expensive. RedLINK ® is the most popular Wireless thermostats that I know about. So, If i understand Your needs: the thermostat on the wall will have no wires and the receiver device it is connected to is near the circulator that you want to control. You want a total of three of these wireless thermostat to operate the same circulator. Does that about sum it up?

If you need to operate the RMB then there will be some interesting but easy connections to make using the RedLINK Zone Control panel (usually used with ductwork zones) and configure it with some relays to operate the RMB as if a regular One Zone/One Thermostat system was controlling the RMB .

Let me know if that is want you need

Derheatmeister · February 15

Tekmar 564.

Jamie Hall · February 15

Battery powered? The RedLINK system is superb — but it requires 24 VAC power. In fact, I can't think of a wireless system which doesn't, as the transmitter needed is going to guzzle power. The Tekmar mentioned isn't wireless.

EdTheHeaterMan · February 15

The way that @Billiambob describes what he wants is not exactly what I proposed in my first comment. He wants a "2 wire thermostat". From what I can gleam from this statement "if it had two more 2 wire thermostats that also wirelessly closed the same a dry contact relay" that he actually wants 3 of the two wire thermostats, total. then, whatever the wires from the thermostats get connected to would have a wireless capability of some type that operate a set of contacts to turn on the RMB. That is how I read his request, but that seems a little backwards, so I want @Billiambob to confirm what he is actually asking for before, I take the time to draw up any wiring diagram. Also is there $$$ in the budget for the RedLINK equipment. I believe that he is hoping for a lower cost RedLINK type system that has only heating capability. I don't believe there is

Billiambob · February 15

Thanks to everyone, Here are more details about my problem.

None of three thermostats will turn on the Taco Radiant Mixing Block (RMB) circulator. The home is a cabin in the woods constructed with big timbers and masonry and is buried in snow. Parts of the heating system are not accessible. I don’t know where the Zone Valve Actuator Control board, Valve Actuators and Zone Valves for this section are. I do have access to the 24VAC Transformer, three Thermostats, and RBM (used as a circulator only). When I jumper the “Heat Demand” terminals on the RMB to make it run, and set heat “demand” on the thermostats each room (zone) does warm up. Conclusions; The Actuator “End Switches” are not closing when the valve opens, or the Actuators only partially open, or the “End Switch Relay” is broken, or there is a bad wire.

FOR NOW: I’m looking for a packaged system that uses three 2 wire thermostats (24VAC) or hub that can wirelessly (RF not WI/FI) close and open contacts on the RMB.

Thanks

EdTheHeaterMan · February 15

This is a cabin that you own?

Parts of the system are not accessible? permanently or because of the snow?

The thermostats you have are wired to a place in the building somewhere ?

There are zone valves but the end switches (somewhere that you can not access) are not completing a circuit and you want to find a way for the thermostats to continue to operate the zone valves and also operate the pump on the RMB. some with wires other wirelessly.

That thermostat does not exist.

The best solution is to get a snow shovel and find the access door to the heating zone valves to correct the problem. If I were a heating professional called to your home to solve this problem, I would tell you that if I can't access all the components, then call me when I can get access. And you owe me for the service visit, especially if I had to use my 4WD for more that 30 minutes, to access your cabin.

Sorry for the blunt answer. But for the amount of $$$ you would need to create this electrical / electronic / wireless configuration to solve this problem, you could buy a pretty good snow blower

EdTheHeaterMan · February 16

Another answer might be to run the circulator pump constantly. If the circulator might dead head because all the zones are off, then you can put a bypass between the supply and the return on the RMB with a bypass pressure regulator valve so the pump can operate all the time and the zone valves will just open and close as needed for heat in each room/zone. Of course that would involve some plumbing that you may not want to get involved with this time of year. Here is a section from a book I used in teaching a Hydroncis one day seminar. It refers to non electric zone valves but the same concept applies when you close electric zone valves with the pump on constant run.

109A_5 · February 16

" I don’t know where the Zone Valve Actuator Control board, Valve Actuators and Zone Valves for this section are. "

You mentioned this before. If you have unknown zone valves that you can't find or control to open for water flow how can you heat that part of the structure ? How will RF thermostats help ?

109A_5 · February 16

Taco clearly specifies a dry contact in the scenario shown below, so some thermostats or other controls that use solid state switching may have to be buffered with a relay.

Also Taco RMB Demand seems to be activated either way a contact closure or applying 24 VAC, so apparently for no demand the circuit has to be open. What they don't really specify in detail, is the typical R wire closing to a W wire applying 24 VAC to the heat demand terminal if that would work regardless of the thermostat type or if that requires a dry contact also.

109A_5 · February 16

If you go to this page.

https://www.tacocomfort.com/product/radiant-mixing-block/

Then scroll down and pick 'Documents' then pick 'Wiring Guides' there are many example PDF documents with wiring examples.

https://www.tacocomfort.com/product/radiant-mixing-block/

Billiambob · February 16

Hello

The Zone Valves are opening because those areas heat when I jumper the RMB. The problem is none of the End Switches or End Switch Relay closed contact is making it back to the RMB Heat Demand input. I do have access to the RMB.

I’m looking for a 2 wire (24VAC or battery) thermostat that can also wirelessly (not Wi/Fi) close the RMB run circuit.

I’m thinking it maybe a thermostat with wireless boiler control or something like it.

Thanks

Bill

109A_5 · February 16

Maybe something like this ? Wireless but no mention of WiFi, many other thermostats on that web site.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Braeburn-7500-BlueLink-Universal-Wireless-Thermostat-Kit-3-Heat-2-Cool

Not sure if it has all the accessories you need or if it will correctly activate the RMB demand input without a relay.

I would suspect the zone(s) that the RMB serves that there are no other Zone valves and controllers, how many total circulators in the system ?

ratio · February 16

Did it ever work right?

You say you want three stats, is that for a zoned AC system with radiant heat, or three mini split heads? Three heat-only radiant loops?

A Honeywell zone panel with a wireless adapter will likely do what you want; but the specific model numbers will vary depending on your equipment & actual needs.

Jamie Hall · February 16

What, if anything, is connected to the RMB demand terminals now?

What, if anything is turning on the circulator or circulators for the rest of the system? What, if anything, is opening the zone valves for the rest of the system?

In fact, do you have any clue as to how the rest of the system is wired or controlled or powered?

The various widgets on the system need to work together…

Billiambob · February 16

Hello, more info…

20250121_103402_Original.jpeg

20250207_111351_Original.jpeg

My system is a heat only hydronic system that did work at one time. Most of the components are Wisbro and is probably about 20 years old. There is a newer Taco Zone Valve Actuator Control board and two Taco RMBs that look like some repairs and upgrades were made. It has a gas burning boiler that supplies the water heater and home heating. The cabin has three floors. Each floor has its own thermostat, transformer, zone valve actuator control board, zone actuators, zone valves, and circulator. The equipment for the upper and bottom areas are fully accessible. The most of the middle level equipment is hidden and/or buried. I do have access to the mid level thermostats (3), 24VAC transformer, and RMB. Everything else is located in the garage. The only mid level wiring accessible is one seven wire cable. Two wires go to the transformer and two go to the RMB “Heat Demand” terminals. The remaining three wires are not connected. The cable disappears into a hole in the plywood heater mounting board.

The mid level does warm up when the thermostats demand heat and I jumper the RMB to run continuously.

Thanks

Bill

Jamie Hall · February 16

Trying to find my way back out of the boondocks here..

OK. Do the upper and lower levels work properly? That is to say, do they run the boiler and warm up the spaces when the thermostats are turned up?

How are all those items for those two zones wired (about half of them are not needed, but that's another story)? That may give us a clue as to how the mid level one was intended to be wired.

If so, the question is… why doesn't the mid level work unless you close the circuit (jumper) the demand terminals?

You have two wires connected to those terminals — and they disappear into the wall. Do they reappear anywhere? Like… the thermostat? What wires are present at the thermostat? Does any combination of 2 wires have 24 VAC on it?

Billiambob · February 16

Hello Again

Note: This is the way the system is set up, I found it this way. I hope that I answered your questions.

The hot water heater system is the only one with electrical connection to the boiler. The boiler is set to maintain a constant temperature regulated 165 degree water flow in the Primary loop available on demand. A water heater temperature sensor controls the circulator to the hot water heat exchanger loop. A mechanical temperature regulated mixer supplies hot water to the house. There are three house heating loops connected to the boiler primary loop. All three have their own thermostats, circulator and zone valve controls. The upper and bottom levels are working but the mid level is not. You must manually jumper the RMB circulator to get flow to the thermostatically controlled zone. I temporarily lifted the 24VAC transformer wires verify that it powered the three mid level two wire thermostats, it does. There is no direct continuity between the thermostats or RMB wiring, (The zone valve actuator control board is in between them). I’m sure that wires disappearing into the hole is going to the hidden zone valve control board but I can’t verify it.

Thanks

Bill

Jamie Hall · February 16

And the middle zone does heat if you jumper the RMB for it to get the boiler to run???

If so, your problem is either that one zone valve end switch (possible) or that one zone valve controller (also possible, and rather more likely) or the wire between those two widgets and the RMB you are jumpering (even more likely).

We are making headway here.

Is there any chance of running a two wire cable from a mid level thermostat to that maid level RMB?

ratio · February 16

https://iohvaccontrols.com/product/io-wr/

Billiambob · February 16

Hello Some more

The boiler is only controlled by the house water heater demand. The Primary loop is assumed to be always hot enough to heat the house, (not my design). The Zone valves are apparently opening because those areas do heat if the RMB is running. I agree that the answer is to make the thermostats controlling the zone valves also control the RMB. I prefer to make this connection wirelessly (no Wi/Fi) and not need to run exposed wires 50 feet down stairs to the garage where the RMB is.

Is there any two wire or battery powered thermostat that also has a wireless module to run the RMB?

Thanks

Bill

EdTheHeaterMan · February 16

Is this what you are looking for @Billiambob?

109A_5 · February 17

My thing with the mid level mystery zone valves and zone valve controller is; If they do exist something is powering them either 24 VAC from a local (mystery) transformer or 24 VAC from a known transformer. If it is believed the mystery zone valves and controller are powered the 120 VAC, you could shut of all the 120 VAC circuits and run the RMB independently to prove it. Since theoretically the zone valves would close (unless locked open) and with the RMB running the mid level zone would not heat.

" I do have access to the mid level thermostats (3), 24VAC transformer, and RMB. Everything else is located in the garage. The only mid level wiring accessible is one seven wire cable. Two wires go to the transformer and two go to the RMB “Heat Demand” terminals. The remaining three wires are not connected. The cable disappears into a hole in the plywood heater mounting board. "

This sounds like there is three zone valves (maybe not a controller) for the mid level. The thermostat that is calling activates the zone valve and the zone valve end switch activates the RMB. The three end switches should be wired in parallel. So with any call of any one of the three thermostats the RMB is activated. I suspect the seven wire cable goes somewhere, I'd find the other end.

If you truly believe the zone valves and maybe a controller exist using a borescope (not that expensive anymore) and some educated guesses I would find the equipment and build an excess cover so the problem is not passed on to the next owner.

109A_5 · February 17

What's going on with this ?

neilc · February 17

good eye 109

Jamie Hall · February 17

I have to admit that while there may be ways to work around all this — we have suggested some here — if I were faced with a situation involving unknown zone valves, possibly an unknown controller, possibly an unknown 120 VAC feed, and unknown piping, I would be very perturbed. This is not a situation which i would want in a structure… too many opportunities for some combination of unknowns to result in an unknown failure which would manifest itself in anything ranging from a pesky leak or no heat to a fire.

If this were mine, I'd take the trouble to find out what's there…

Billiambob · February 17

Wow, great diagram, thanks

My wired thermostats do control the zone valves but they don't turn on the RMB in the garage. I'm sorry that my pictures might have miss lead you. These pictures are of the bottom system, not the mid level hidden components. I was trying to show that these Wisbro actuators (same age as the missing ones) do not open far enough to close their End Switches. The Actuator End Switch wires on the bottom system are shorted together to turn on their RMB.

I believe that the hidden components are also Wisbro. Eventually I want to replace all of the Wisbro mechanical actuators with Uponor Blue thermal actuators. The problem is the manifolds are Wisbro and I'm told that the adapter VR33 doesn't fit and the manifolds must be changed to Uponor, (is this true?) I won't be doing any plumbing until springtime. For now I just need the thermostats to be able to control the RMB.

It was suggested to use the Braeburn 7500 Universal Wireless Kit but the 2 wires for thermostat are for power only. It does not “power share” to control the Zone Valve Actuators (24VAC drop to 1.6VAC turn on). It won’t control the zone valves.

Any more ideas?

Thanks Again

Bill

109A_5 · February 17

The zone valve actuators that don't operate the end switches correctly, are they installed correctly ? The indicators seem all over the place, and I don't know if any are energized when the picture was taken.

Billiambob · February 17

Hello

All of the valve actuators were energized to open. (Note: I tried to open them manually and forgot to retighten the actuator on the left.). I was told that originally everything worked “at one time” but that was from many years ago. The up/down indicators barely move, if at all. The Pin Valves do operate because I can hear and feel hot water flowing. The alignment dot moves a little when you turn the knob but not enough to line it up. I need to replace these actuators and the other hidden ones, (ten total) with Uponor Blue Thermal Actuators. Unfortunately per other posts above the Uponor actuator adapter (VA33) will not work on these old brass Wisbro manifolds. If this is true I won’t be able to change out manifolds until spring. For now I’m looking for a work around to wirelessly run the RMB.

Thanks

Bill

hot_rod · February 17

if you remove all the actuators, the ports should be open. Then you just need to signal the RMB on

Those actuators just hand tighten until the indicator is engaged and moves to the dot

EdTheHeaterMan · February 18

@Billiambob said: "Wow, great diagram, thanks"

Thanks for the complement on the diagram. However, there is no such thermostat that has 2 two wires to activate a zone valve, and also a RF signal to operate something else. What I have pictured does not exist. You would need to build it yourself if you really need such a thing. Perhaps you could do some research and design exactly what you need.

Then you can sell it to all the other cabin owners in the woods constructed with big timbers and masonry and is buried in snow. where parts of the heating system are not accessible. There must be a lot of them out there. You could corner the market and become a world famous inventor.

I Need 2 wire thermostat that also wirelessly controls a Taco RMB circulator.

Comments

Categories