water line disappearing

RNC

I have a Utica 299999 PEG EID. I believe my boiler may be too big for my 3-family apartment building. No leaks in system, re- piped the header installed a 3" drop, dropped the dry return 5 inches for faster condensate return. All radiator valves are wide open throughout the building. I'm starting to think that the boiler is too big. My question is can the Btu's be decreased in turn decreasing the velocity of the steam and not pulling the water out of the boiler.

delcrossv

Sounds like something is delaying your condensate return. That doesn't have anything to do with boiler size.

Can you go step by step what happens with the water line as the boiler cycles?

Does the low water cuttoff engage?

mattmia2

or it is surging or priming and throwing liquid water in to the mains. did you skim it after you changed the piping? Is there additive in the water that is causing it to prime?

pecmsg

can you post pictures of the near boiler piping?

neilc

what pressure are you set to, and what are you seeing on the gage when the water leaves the boiler?

Dave in QCA

Is this a one pipe or two pipe system. You say you lowered you dry return. Can you take pictures to show exactly what you did there please?

ethicalpaul

1 or 2 pipe? If it’s one pipe, pressure can’t push water out of the boiler.

Depending on the timing it could be surging

RNC

yes, it is a one pipe system. At start of the cycle the water in the site glass (clear water) starts to surge midway the glass to the very top, As the cycle continues the water surges in three-inch increments as the surge works its way to the bottom of the glass until the low water cutoff shuts the boiler off. the low water cutoff kicks in at about 3/4 of an inch from the bottom of the glass. when the boiler shuts off the surge stops but at the same time the last 3/4 of an inch of water disappears completely out of sight. The Xvt water feeder is on a 8-minute delay to allow the water to return. When the water reaches approximately 1 inch from the bottom of the glass the boiler turns back on and almost immediately when the boiler flames up the water level quickly rises back to operating level which is about three inches from the top of the glass and then it repeats itself starting the surge all over again. Soon as I get the photos I will post.

ethicalpaul

that is a strange description of water level that I haven’t seen before. The good news is there is an explanation, we just have to find it.

A video would be good but if not, what is the timing roughly of these events in a typical heating cycle?

clammy

Larger boiler especially side tapped boiler are sensitive to dirty boiler water .It would be wise to flush and skim the boiler if piped correctly w a skim set up i have found i easier to wand the boiler from the side skim tap and wash the boiler out leave the bottom drain open as you wash each section upon completion close up the valve ,fill to water line and fire her up till just about steam and do a quick skim . Aside from being oversized possibly ,if you have wet returns they should be flushed out if this was not done then do it or the mud and debris will return back to your boiler . With a boiler that size a full 2 inch equalizer should have been used .As for down firing your best and safest approach would be to add a vaporstat and a 2 stage gas valve .I would hope that your boiler is set up w a 0 to 3 psi gauge so you know what the system pressure truly is . Personally before jump to that how about your do a edr survey and see if indeed your boiler is over sized and if not and you are sure your returns are clear and the boiler is clean and that your pressure troll is set and operating within the proper pressure range . Have your main vents been checked for proper operation and function ?

Some other steps are to clock your gas meter and check inlet and burner manifold pressure to ensure that the boiler is not being over fired it makes sense ? As for water disappearing from the site glass personally when i see this occurring i usually will shut the burner off if the water line comes right back up then it is one of a few things ,bad near boiler piping /dirty boiler water ie oils /mud /rust making the water line surge , Also do not discount hidden leaks in piping large enough leaks will also make a water line disappear but i have only seen this on mostly side outlet boiler and maybe one or two top outlet .

PS water does not get pulled from the boiler its leaving most likely due to the boiler being dirty . Usually most in the business of steam boiler install and repair will aside from replacing a boiler and its near boiler piping will up grade main venting and replace all steam radiator vents being there usually a mis moss of old and barely working vents being if it is not done when the boilers being replaced it will most likely never be done and i can guarantee that that when not included in the replacement job will not be installed for free you will be charged extra not only for the vents but for a return visit usually at more then you would have been charged included with the boiler replacement . Also if the boiler is cycling on pressure maybe its just because there zero place for the air to get out being most of the rad vents are 30 years old the same goes for the main venting .

It seem easy to just have a boiler replaced just about any jack a$$ can do it but is it done right Hum being there's a lot more then meets the eye and it seems every body looks at bottom line price instead of what else is being done .Just because you up date the boiler what about the rest of the stuff that works silently and unknowingly for ions maybe they should be replaced also .

when faced w customers who see no value in replacing main and radiator vents and radiator traps thinking it just a sales angle but are just loaded w complaints about there steam system and when the boiler is replaced for it to be a new perfect functioning system without updating any vents and such is a indicator of what i can except so i generally will pass on such jobs being im not in the habit of doing things on my dime for free and being on the hook for issue that are usually due to there seeing zero value in until it dont work .

I would possibly think that being you had to redo the original near boiler piping that you possibly had the wrong contract being real steam guys dont have to re do headers being they do them properly the first time around that being said i would not doubt that it s over sized .

Hoping not to sound like a tool but im just tell ya the truth as i see it being i have been doing this for quite a number of year s to the point that im nearly at the end of the road of nonsense and can only do what is $ to do other wise i gotta go .

peace and good luck clammy

clammy

i may have forgetten to add that your new boiler may not have he same water volume that your old one had and that you may have to add a reservoir tank to add that missing water volume .The alternative for a boiler which runs out of water due to low boiler water volume is a boiler feed pump w a mech lwco to maintain water line which is mechanical and costly while a reservoir has zero moving parts and if installed and sized properly does the same thing automatically requiring to be flushed out and refilled when a boiler water side service is performed .Ya know clean the lwco probe, sight glass assembly and safety valve piping among a slew of other things which are usually over looked or installed so it cant be service which is quite common when nobody things about coming back to service . These are some of the differences that occur when those who have the knowledge and take real pride in the craft aside from all the fame and glory that comes along w it . This is why we cost more . lol

peace and good luck clammy

RNC

this was he boiler as its presently set up. I just recently repacked all the radiator valves in the house and replace all steam vents. I’m not losing water. The water feeder has not replaced any water since then. I will take clammy advice and use a wand and clean out each heat exchanger. When I first started this chat the boiler had just been cleaned and water was clear but as the picture shows the water has rust in it again. I will get those studies done and have the gas company come a check the gas flow to the boiler. The pressuretrol is on the lowest setting

RNC

The naked long pipe is the return line that I lowered to increase the pitch

techforlife

I would start with thoroughly skimming the boiler, and making sure the steam pressure is not excessive, .5 and 1 psi. on pressuretrol, and that it actually turns off the burner. That amount of surging is usually just contaminated water.

techforlife

P.S. clogged pigtail or piping?