Even more steam system questions……

geemalar

So the more I read, the more questions I have……..

The good news……..my single pipe system seems to be working fine. Converted from oil to natural gas about 8 years ago. Fitted a Peerless boiler as it was highly recommended. A little bit of a concern over boiler water loss, but not so much that it’s alarming. I’ve found one angle valve on my first floor (the one directly above the boiler in my basement) that has a dime size patch of condensate from the union nut when the system is running. We already have plans to get together in May or June for replacement. Constantly looking at all other areas for any additional leaks, but so far nothing has appeared. Will keep checking.

So the first question…….would a boiler that has contaminants on the top level………such as oily residue……would that contribute to a wet steam. I ask as my sight glass water is relatively clean, but the air space above it has contaminants on the glass. I cleaned the sight glass a month or so ago. The upper and lower sight glass fittings/shut off valves are both clear. I plan to skim the boiler once we get to a more comfortable temp (it was -1 this morning). Just thought that a wet steam (if the top layer is contaminated) could be a contributing factor to the water loss.

Second question……I have a radiator in a first floor den that is the second closest radiator to the boiler. It’s currently fitted with a Varivalve that’s fully open. Would fitting something with a larger fixed opening (Maid o Mist) allow it to heat up more. Hoping to get just a little more heat out of that one radiator.

Last question……for now…….never knew that there was such a thing as a main line vent valve (or there should be) at the end of my main line system. So I have a finished basement, but most of the main lines off my boiler I have viewing access to. Naturally, where the furthest end of the mains run to, it’s a finished drywall ceiling. Fortunately it’s in a storage closet, so I plan to cut an access port and put in an access panel to see if I can locate the main vent valve. So my question is, I know it’s possible, but is it unlikely that a main vent valve was never fitted? And it should be at the far end of the main lines correct? House was built in 1935. Not sure if a main line vent valve was something that was typically fitted 90 years ago.

Realize it’s a lot to ask at one time……..but I want to try and make the system function the best that it can be. Plan is to stay in this house for a while, so knowing the heat is as close to 100% is comforting.

ethicalpaul

So the first question…….would a boiler that has contaminants on the top level………such as oily residue……would that contribute to a wet steam.

Yes. But that wouldn't be related to water loss (unless it was so bad that water was shooting out of your radiators as a result)

Second question……I have a radiator in a first floor den that is the second closest radiator to the boiler. It’s currently fitted with a Varivalve that’s fully open. Would fitting something with a larger fixed opening (Maid o Mist) allow it to heat up more. Hoping to get just a little more heat out of that one radiator.

A Varivalve is a massive vent, much larger than any Maid o Mist or Gorton. They are so massive that I don't recommend them.

I know it’s possible, but is it unlikely that a main vent valve was never fitted?

Yes it's possible. It's also possible that one was fitted but then removed and plugged by someone in some decade ago. Yes, it should be located past the last radiator supply on each main, often at the corner where the main turns downward to the floor.

geemalar

Hi Paul

So there’s no water coming out any vents, I just thought that if it was a wet steam that might contribute to some water loss.

AFA the Varivalve, that particular radiator provides heat……so I take it there’s no benefit to fitting a different valve. Knowing that all the other radiators in my house have Varivalves (excluding one Varivalve I replaced 2 weeks ago due to it sticking closed, I fitted a Maid o Mist) would there be any benefit to replacing the other Varivalves?

I plan to start searching for the main vent valve this afternoon…….what would occur if one was not fitted? Like previously mentioned, my system seems to function properly, but I’m always looking to make it better.

Thanks again for your insight……..

geemalar

So I’m safe to assume that the main vent should be somewhere above this line…..this is the opposite corner of my basement from my boiler. The line running to the right is the return line to my boiler.

leonz

In showing the above image are you saying you actually have a two pipe system???

In my speaking to you as a novice, I have only seen one pipe systems with no return piping in the homes I lived in.

ethicalpaul

So there’s no water coming out any vents, I just thought that if it was a wet steam that might contribute to some water loss.

Nope. All steam is wet steam to some extent. It has to escape the system to cause a loss. Bad vent, leaking valve, rusted pipes, stuff like that.

AFA the Varivalve, that particular radiator provides heat……so I take it there’s no benefit to fitting a different valve. Knowing that all the other radiators in my house have Varivalves (excluding one Varivalve I replaced 2 weeks ago due to it sticking closed, I fitted a Maid o Mist) would there be any benefit to replacing the other Varivalves?

If they work, they work. They are just very very fast vents and that can cause difficulty in balancing. I know some people who have them and are happy.

I plan to start searching for the main vent valve this afternoon…….what would occur if one was not fitted? Like previously mentioned, my system seems to function properly, but I’m always looking to make it better.

If there is no main venting, then all the air in the main pipes has to escape via radiator vents. Now since the Vari-Valve is as large as a main vent that might not be a big deal, but I prefer a fast-vented main and slower-venting radiators.

So I’m safe to assume that the main vent should be somewhere above this line…..this is the opposite corner of my basement from my boiler. The line running to the right is the return line to my boiler.

It's really hard to say from that photo. Finished basements are my enemy.

geemalar

At leonz….I have one single pipe going to all my radiators, so I believe that’s considered a single pipe steam system. No expert here, just going by what I’ve read and their descriptions……appears the 2 mains reconnect above this point and drop down to the pipe that returns to the boiler.

Jamie Hall

One pipe to each radiator is a one pipe system.

Now that pipe half way up the wall may be a wet return — it should be — which is required in all parallel flow systems, one pipe or two pipe. I am, however, a little concerned that it may be above the boiler water line, in which case it could cause problems in some arrangements.

In this particular setting, however, the system seems to be working well enough, so I doubt that there is a problem with it set where it is.

geemalar

The pipe you mention is what I believe is the wet return……..it runs approximately 5 feet to the right in the picture, makes a 90 degree turn and runs 30 feet along the wall, and then makes another 90 degree turn and runs about 10 feet on another wall. During that entire run it has a downward pitch that reconnects it to a pipe that is connected to the base of the boiler. The copper pipe in the second picture is where this wet return reconnects to the boiler system.

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delcrossv

geemalar

That’s a very good question……my washer and dryer sit on the other side of that wall in a finished enclosure. In following the steam main from the other side of my house, I can see and feel (from the heat) how the pipe is boxed in about 5 feet away from the back wall. It makes a turn in towards the back wall and appears to drop down. It connects to that pipe coming from the left. My main from the other side of my house connects to the vertical pipe in the picture. So in that general area is where both mains connect to the return line back to my boiler.

delcrossv

OK, then the vents should be in the ceiling where the vertical pipes drop down into the common return.

Guess some drywall needs to be opened up. I'm with @ethicalpaul: can't stand finished basements.

You may get access by removing the panels on the right. Seems they're set up for easy removal.

geemalar

Found it…..fortunately it’s at the far end of a storage area, so with an access panel I can make it look presentable if someone was to look at it. As if anyone was going to look in my storage area in my basement……

The 2 mains meet up about 3 feet away and run to this 90 degree elbow that the main vent sits on. The vent sits on top of the vertical pipe in my closet picture. So as my boiler was running I could hear the main vent release steam and then close. So it would appear that is functioning correctly. Is it necessary to run a vertical stub pipe and fit the main vent on top. I have the room. Nothing I would do now, that would be a summer task. Or leave good enough alone. The vent valve has to be over 20 years old. I have no issue replacing it once the heating season is over.

ethicalpaul

Good job. My opinion is that it's fine there. If it weren't there would be a big stain under it.

As long as it releases air and closes to steam (easy to verify on the next call for heat) you are good.

Jamie Hall

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1837152#Comment_1837152

agreed. Good detective work there!

geemalar

Glad I was able to locate it, and acknowledge that it appears to be functioning properly. At the same time I was able look at a few pipes and connections behind finished areas to check for leaks, which I did not see any. Finished it off with a small 8 x 12 access panel for future viewing.