Steam experts out there?

jturk1000

I'm not a plumber - just a relatively handy homeowner. I have an old home with a steam boiler and radiators throughout the house. Small house (~ 1500 sq ft), two stories.

I recently replaced the entire water feeder system (McDonnel & Miller 47-2) with model 2 switch. The cast iron base of it cracked in half and the float hardly even worked (gunk).

system.jpg

The only thing I didn't replace was the Pressuretrol and the fittings and gauge around it (connected to the top of the water feeder). I did notice a good amount of corrosion going into the fitting that connected to the top of the water feeder, but I didn't do anything about it. On my second floor and in one of my bedrooms, when the heat is on, it's not unusual for the vent to be hissing nearly 100% of the time. My 2nd floor bathroom does this sometimes also. Also in that bedroom I think there is too much water condensing in the radiator and causing some clanking sounds as it hits the pressurized steam. Together with the hissing, people can't sleep well in that room because of the noise.

So… I wonder if my system is running at too high a pressure. The front of the Pressuretrol (PA404A 1033 2) shows it is set very low (0.5 psi or so) and on the inside the dial is set to 1 psi.

Maybe someone can help me understand, but I think this means that the boiler will run until the pressure exceeds the setpoint (0.5 psi) by 1 psi, then it shuts off until it drops below some setpoint.

Anywho… the analog pressure gauge that's next to the Pressuretrol reads 3.5 psi when the boiler actually shuts off.

So - I might completely be making this up, but here's what I think and here's where I need some expertise in troubleshooting. I think maybe the corrosion in the fittings that lead to the Pressuretrol is restricting the flow of steam such that the system is actually HIGHER in pressure while the pressuretrol thinks it's shutting itself down at 1.5 psi. The gauge that's there, on the other hand, reads 3.5 psi.

pressuretrol.jpg

gauge.jpg

I don't think the gauge is bad or the Pressuretrol, but I do think those lines could be filled with corrosion, so I think I'd like to replace the fittings. Thoughts?

jturk1000

That water looks really low in the sight glass, I know. Much of it is the angle the image is taken at. But once the new feeder was put into place, the water is now about an inch lower than the sticker on the side of the furnace. Just in case it catches your eye.

JohnNY

The pigtail on your pressuretrol is….ineffective.

delcrossv

I think your pressuretrol is bad as the gauge on the same line seems to work. You may also want to replace your iron pigtail and fittings with brass.

Hissing vents point to high pressure and/or lack of main venting. What vents do you have on your mains?

EBEBRATT-Ed

The pressure control operates the way you posted. But the pressure control and its adjustment scale are notoriously inaccurate.

Back the screw out some more to lower the pressure. Adjust it just a little at a time.

Do it with the cover off so you can look inside. If you back the screw out too far it will come out. Use brass fitting for the gauge and pressure control.

@JohnNY I don't like the pigtail either but seems to me it will flood the gauge and pressure control.

Intplm.

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1834191#Comment_1834191

Yes very true. The pig tail should be installed so that condensate can develop in the curl. Ive even filled the things with water before installing. The water protects the the control from the steam.

You might need to replace the gauge and the pressuretrol and install them correctly.

Intplm.

It is below the water line but there is some question about the way it is that concerns me.

jturk1000

Thanks for the jump-start on ideas. Can I see an image of a properly plumbed pressuretrol and gauge?

jturk1000

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1834192#Comment_1834192

As for vents, I don't know the model, but they look similar to this:

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Hoffman-401443-70A-1-8-Angle-Steam-Radiator-Air-Valve-11736000-p

except that my return turn is longer - does a 90 degree so it points down when installed.

Jamie Hall

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1834391#Comment_1834391

Say again? First off, that's a radiator vent. Second, that type of vent — and for that matter all vents — must be installed so that the are vertical and right side up to work at all…

mattmia2

You should add a 0-5 psig or 0-3 psig gauge with the required gauge. At low pressures that type of gauge can be very inaccurate and is easily damaged such that the calibration is wrong.

delcrossv

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1834388#Comment_1834388

Best practice per @EzzyT

geemalar

So for me, more information on this site leads to more questions. Regarding the boiler plumbing above, as it’s hard to see from that angle……are the 2 vertical boiler output pipes each individually connected to the horizontal pipe (appears they are but just wanted to be sure). And the 2 vertical pipes coming out of the horizontal pipe…….are they each individually piped to separate mains. Is there an advantage of having 2 vertical feed pipes for 2 individual mains vs one individual feed pipe split to handle 2 individual mains.

Would this assembly above just be considered an overall better output design regardless of boiler manufacturer, or is it something specific to the manufacturer of this boiler.

Jamie Hall

That picture of one of @EzzyT is a textbook example — dare I say master class example?— of best practice near boiler piping for any boiler with two outlets for the steam risers.

jturk1000

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1834396#Comment_1834396

Yes, Jamie, these are on my radiators. They are installed vertically and right-side-up as you indicated.

jturk1000

Any images that show attachment to the top of a water feeder assembly, as mine is?

delcrossv

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1834666#Comment_1834666

OK, now look in your basement where the main steam lines drop down back to your boiler. Any vents there?

jturk1000

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1834196#Comment_1834196

A few have commented on the accuracy of the pressuretrol. I took the advice here and backed out the screw a couple turns and now I got my max pressure down to just a little over 2psi (on the gauge) before the system shuts down. This is good. I still do have water condensing in ONE of the pipes leading up to a 2nd story bedroom (I can hear some gurgling sounds as it runs up and and the pipe). Clancking of the steam/water meeting is too noisy for people sleeping in that bedroom. Maybe the vent on that radiator is the wrong size? I'm only recently learning about different size vents. I think this is the one on the radiator: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Hoffman-401443-70A-1-8-Angle-Steam-Radiator-Air-Valve-11736000-p?utm_source=google_ad&utm_medium=Shopping_Heating&utm_campaign=Shopping_X_Heating_X_SSC_ClassB/C&utm_campaignid=21633352521&utm_adgroupid=167295572075&utm_targetid=pla-2352613557038&utm_product_id=401443&utm_matchtype=&utm_keyword=&utm_adtype=pla&utm_category=Heating&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAs5i8BhDmARIsAGE4xHw9lJXAPk-i1wXl7d908mP2C9hqPrqKZUcm4W20cmEVaSzM8_JyzicaAhe8EALw_wcB

ethicalpaul

I still do have water condensing in ONE of the pipes leading up to a 2nd story bedroom

Water condenses in all pipes. What you probably mean is "you have water collecting" in one of the pipes.

As in, there is a sag or low spot in the pipe that doesn't let water run back down.

jturk1000

I have two large radiators on the first floor (where the thermostat is) and one in each of three bedrooms upstairs and a bathroom, up on the second floor.