Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

How to move forward with Heating in 1941 home in Queens, NY

paddys
paddys Member Posts: 2
in A-C, Heat Pumps & Refrigeration

Hi All,

Your valuable opinion is appreciated.

I have old style steam heating with big radiators in our home.

According to my neighbor, who is a general contractor, replacing that with Hot water heating is a good idea.

This will also include changing our current big space consuming boiler to "on-demand" navien kind of gas powered small unit.

Contractor said that Steam heating has one pipe and Hot water heating has 2 pipes, so some piping work is also required.

He has said it would cost between 30k and 40k.

I am also thinking that it might have some respiration related benefits for my 12 year old daughter, who is probably still slightly asthmatic.

House details:

House was originally constructed in 1941. 80 plus year old home.

House is sandwiched between townhomes on either side, so not too badly insulated I would guess.

Main floor = 1010 sq. ft. (50 by 21 approx)

Basement = 820 sq. feet

Currently have gas heat. (Big boiler and water heater in utility room)

Also have electric powered heat pump w/ 5 split units, installed 9 years ago. (Mitsubishi ductless Residential 42,000 BTU split over 5 units)

Heat pump 10 year Maintenance agreement ending next year

Cost of Gas vs. Electric:

Coned Electric: average about 40c or less per KWH approx.

National Grid Gas: Peak Jan. $2.50 per Therm (CCF * 1.035) and between $3.50 and $4.00 during Oct. Nov months.

We are using these split units only in Summer for cooling on an as needed basis.

A few years ago, we tried to heat the house via the split units only for a couple of days. Felt that the heat was very dry with heat pump.

Also, I have heard that monthly bill for heat via heat pump is way more than that for gas heat. Don't know for sure.

After seeing your responses, I am thinking heat pump might be a better option.

Regards

Paddy

Comments

  • LRCCBJ
    LRCCBJ Member Posts: 721
    edited January 1
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1831231#Comment_1831231

    Agreed.

    A replacement steam boiler (if you actually need one…………nothing stated as to WHY you want to switch) will cost less than 1/2 of the cost of converting to a HW system. And, the amount of fuel savings in a 1000 sq. ft. townhouse, won't be more than $250. per year. It doesn't currently use much fuel. You have zero heatloss on two sides of it!!

    Calculate how many years you will need to payback that figure you cited above…………AND……….calculate the return on capital that you lose for the huge amount of money you just expended!

    It is a total losing proposition for ZERO additional comfort.

    ALSO………..try to ignore general contractors who GENERALLY have not the slightest bit of knowledge on heating systems (or any HVAC system for that matter).

    STEAM DOCTORMad Dog_2paddys
  • Bcos17
    Bcos17 Member Posts: 25

    Don't listen to your neighbor. Get the steam dialed in with correct piping and a new boiler (only if needed), proper venting, etc. and you will never consider replacing it. It's also probably the best type of heating for your child with Asthma.

    LRCCBJMad Dog_2bburdpaddys
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,545

    According to my neighbor, who is a general contractor, replacing that with Hot water heating is a good idea.

    You'll never see a return on investment.

    LRCCBJMad Dog_2Greeningpaddys
  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 3,074
    edited January 1

    If you want to go hot water and use a condensing boiler , I would recommend using panel radiators , pipe it home run with Pex . Add the thermostat for each unit . Always hook up the outdoor sensor …. With this system you can dial in the comfort for each family space …The system will run at max efficiency …. Everyone would be happy ….

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    paddys
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,633

    Big mistake...unless you have other reasons to rip it all out. Dan Holohan, the Founder of this site and Rock Star of the Heating Industry wrote two great books called "Greening Steam" & "We got Steam Heat..." that you need to read before you take another step. There are highly competent & knowledgeable people reading this right now that can get your system back in great working shape. Mad Dog

    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
    paddys
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,499
    edited January 1
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1831251#Comment_1831251

    But that would cost even more, and you would never see any return on your investment. Keep the steam.

    There are a whole bunch of Steam Men in NYC, who can make your system run as well as hot-water for much less cost. Go here:

    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/state/NY/

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    Mad Dog_2LRCCBJGreeningpaddys
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 25,307

    Not only is taking out the steam a very very poor idea indeed (and insanely expensive), the suggestion of replacing the "big boiler" with a tankless is even worse — and shows that your neighbour — while perhaps well-meaning — has no clue as to what he's talking about.

    You may — or may not — need a new boiler. Unless you are adding water to it more than once a week, probably not. That said, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it needed some tender loving care and maintenance. Look on "Find a Contractor" here for some suggestions.

    Changing to hot water would have no benefits for your daughter, I'm afraid.

    With your electric rates and gas rates the heat pumps will cost more to heat your place at any time, even at peak gas rates.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Greeningpaddys
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,633

    There is tremendous ancillary destruction of the home over & above the actual new heating pipes, et cetera. Lead paint, dust...Mad Dog

    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
    LRCCBJpaddys
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,633
    20250101_161025.jpg

    Start with this book. Amazon will have it to you in two days.Mad Dog

    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
    paddys
  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 3,074
    edited January 1

    If I was renovating the home, I would want to build around the old system …. Why were you thinking of change ?

    t

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    Greening
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,633

    The vast majority of General Contractors are looking for big ticket jobs, not what's in the best interests of the Homeowner. Mad Dog

    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
    LRCCBJGreeningpaddys
  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,526
    edited January 1

    Another big risk with conversion is cost of replacing radiators if not compatible with hot water heating. The radiators you have may be configured for steam only

    Greeningpaddys
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,369

    Fix what's there.

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

    Mad Dog_2paddys
  • Hot_water_fan
    Hot_water_fan Member Posts: 2,082

    Congrats, you’ve just saved $40k!

    Mad Dog_2paddys
  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,526
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1831316#Comment_1831316

    Chris has a new icon! 😎

    paddys

Categories