Expected operation of Gorton #2 during off cycle

WilliamME

Is it normal to not hear a Gorton #2 during operation?

Recently had boiler replaced after many years of being cold with a dead boiler and having to use alternate heat sources.

I'm back in the game now, so dusting off all the steam heat books I bought back when I thought the old boiler had a chance. So, I'm tinkering and learning along the way.

My system now has 3 mains (2 primary original ones, and 1 small new leg to an addition that never had heat).

I replaced the vents located at the top of each of the wet returns on the two larger mains with Gorton #2s because associated register vents were making a lot of hissing noise during boiler startup.

System seems to heat pretty fast and efficiently. Now the register vents are very quiet as they warm up. Down in the basement at the mains however I can't hear or feel air coming out of the Gortons during start of a boiler cycle (albeit the boiler is loud).

However, when boiler cycles off all small vents on the registers make a lot more of a noise I feel like when the air rushes back into them. Are the Gortons slow to open back up when boiler cycles off? It's almost like the register vents are working hard now in the opposite direction.

Big Ed_4

It all sounds right to me …..Are the mains insulated ?

WilliamME

Hi, thanks for the response!

No they are not insulated. Actually nothing is.

Previously everything was insulated in asbestos, but I had to have it removed for contractor to touch anything.

Can't afford to insulate until next year. Pretty cleaned out by replacement cost of boiler. I was surprised to see per cost foot of insulation. I say I can't afford that, but maybe I'll pay in oil?

I believe I read in another thread that with nothing insulated, main vents don't play as much of a role as the slow time spent heating piping means most of the air could be pushed out register vents by the time the steam stops condensing on cold pipes. So it made me wonder if the Gortons could be defective and I wouldn't even notice, as I saw a thread about these vents suffering a recent quality control issue in recent past.

Either way it only about 5-15 minutes before registers start delivering heat now that winter temps have set in. So far on average, the boiler is usually off for about an hour between thermostat cycles.

I kind of like having my basement the same temperature as the rest of the house, is it bad to leave it this way if I can afford the oil? I have the benefit of a warm floor underfoot and it cuts the dampness out of the basement air (dirt floor with vapor barrier on top).

Jamie Hall

Are these Gortons on the mains, or on returns? You mention wet returns… below the boiler water line?

WilliamME

Each of the 2 mains are 2", but each has its own 3/4" return lines run underneath them. At the end of the runs where they go back into the boiler, there is a tee, on the top of the tee there is a stub that goes above the water line to the ceiling of the basement , that's where the main vents are.

WilliamME

The tee is also above the water line I should note

Jamie Hall

So long as those return lines drop down before they tie together, that all sounds quite reasonable — and it's not unusual at all to not hear Gorton #2s in that setting. They're pretty quiet.

And there's no real harm to having the basement warm — and if you want it warm, you are not wasting the oil, are you? The main advantage to insulating mains isn't really the heat loss, but getting heat to the actual radiators a little faster.

WilliamME

Okay, thank you for sharing your experience with these vents. I read a lot of positive things about them, which is why I bought them, but then after I installed them I stumbled on a thread here from last year concerning multiple quality issues with them and became paranoid. Given the investment cost, I want to be sure they are functioning as intended.

WilliamME

I can confirm the returns drop down and connect together below the water line, and below what I believe is a hartford loop.

My previous system was very cobbled together, I believe this new system was installed much more conscientiously by the contractor.

EBEBRATT-Ed

If the system heats fast, I wouldn't worry about it. Perhaps when the boiler shuts down the steam collapses in the radiators first, but I am sure the Gorton's are letting air in. Sounds like a non issue.

Neild5

You can test igmf they are venting, use an IR thermometer and a can of aerosol smoke. The smoke will show if air is flowing out the vent, and the thermometer will tell you when it should close.

ARobertson13

WilliamME, First I would like to know if you have any way that you can measure the final pressure in your system. If the pressure is well above 2psi [Example: 3.5 psi] what may be happening is the vents upstairs are not closing because of expansion of the bi-metalic strip due to temperature but because they are forced shut because of high pressure. This will result in a hissing sound about 2 minutes after the boiler shuts down and the pressure drops allowing the vent to open. This sound may diminish gradually and last for around 10 to 15 seconds. Also, I do not recommend the use of IR thermometers. Their accuracy is suspect when measuring heat on shinney objects such as Gorton, Jacobson and Hoffman radiator vents.

WilliamME

I don't have a way to measure the pressure, what is generally the best way to do that? Boiler is a 164k Burnham Megasteam. It only has the stock 30 psi guage on the front. It has a Pressuretrol set to 1.5 psi, with a .5 differential. There's no 1.5 psi on the scale, but the dial is set below the 2 psi mark to roughly where 1.5 psi would be.

Some additional background as to why I installed the Gorton #2's.

Boiler was installed last month, operated great for a couple days. Old boiler was out of commission for 4 years, and before that it was running poorly. I have a thread from 4 years ago about this.

By Day Three there was loud water hammer and first floor rads were filling with water. The boiler was running out of water and the auto feeder was kicking in repeatedly. This was a Sunday, so I wasn't ready to go down the road of calling the contractor, so I decided to do some DIY troubleshoot.

There's about 50' of 2" pipe on each main. There are two vents on the main return. At the time they were Vent Rite 77's. One was spewing water, the other was doing nothing and ice cold. I removed both. One was stuck shut (the cold one), and the one that was spewing water had grit in it. I boiled both in vinegar, had to force the stuck shut one back open with a nail punch. I also read it was good to check the pigtail, so I removed the Pressuretrol and blew air into the pigtail, there was initial resistance, then it blew freely, so I think it was blocked. I decided I probably should replace the main vents after this, so I ordered the Gorton 2's as an upgrade. Register vents are mostly only Dole 1A's, but I've replaced a couple with new Hoffman 1As.

Next I opened the drain on the wet returns, and nothing came out. So I concluded there was a blockage, seemingly somewhere in the Hartford loop. I attached a garden hose to the drain, and blew air up the line. There was a gurgle, then a ton of black dirty water started flowing out. I let it flow until it started to look more clear. Since then the boiler has been fairly great, and has yet to call for water in 3 weeks.

This morning I decided to check on the Gorton's. One was hot, one was cold.

I removed the hot one, and some water came out. I couldn't blow through it with it right side up. I shook it, and some more water came out. Eventually after shaking it some, it made the "Cow bell" sound I read about, then I was able to blow through it. The other vent was cold, but dry. I couldn't blow through it even after shaking it, it seems stuck closed. I have re-installed one of the vent-rites this morning, and the re-installed one of the Gorton's. I will watch the system.

The recent water in the vent may be a red herring, as last week the contractor returned to add piping for an additional register, and did not skim the boiler (but he did do a complete drain), so I believe it was surging from new oils. I updated the tech on everything that transpired since his last visit, he was not surprised given the age of the system, and did not protest me swapping the vents given what happened. I have performed 3 hours of skimming in the past 48 hours and the surging is now gone. The actual employee in charge of working on my system seems very knowledgeable, but the contracting company is not very responsive, and I think currently somewhat grumbly about the system install as they contracted it as a 2 day job and it's been 4 days, and they still have one day left to finish some odds and ends like connecting 1 more register and my indirect water heater.