It's freezing upstairs
So we have a gas furnace that moves water through our baseboard heating. It was fine last winter but now the upstairs livingroom/kitchen is cold. It's set to whatever temp but it doesn't go to the temp the actual temp is always below the set temp
We have 3 boxes for 3 zones in the house. The one that's causing issues is the one for the kitchen/living room. The thermostat did say the batteries needed replacing which I did and the temp went up but now it's giving the same problems.
Can someone please help? There is a tab on the zone box and they are all facing the same direction but I have no clue about what any of it is.
Comments
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The levers "tabs?" should move freely back and forth if the zone valve (box thingy) is open. If it moves freely, the zone could have air in it and it needs to be purged. If the lever does not move freely, the zone valve is either not getting the power to open, or the zone valve motor is bad.
If the lever is not closed, you can manually slide the lever open and lock it into place. Whenever another zone gets a call, that zone will also heat.
You can also try jumping R and W at the thermostat. If it works, bad thermostat.
That's a start, unless you have an electrical meter.
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The thermostat in the picture is calling for heat, so its associated zone valve in the basement should be open and at least the circulating pump should be running.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
The zone box is hot but the baseboard for that zone are cold.
The tab for that zone moves with no resistance while the other tabs do move but have some resistance
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Seems like the motor is disconnected from the valve. Try opening it manually and see if the pipe gets hot after the valve.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
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Has anything changed in the sys, work, valves closed, etc. If you move the lever under the wires on the box to the locked position, from the closed side to the open side and than up to the locked open position.
The thermostat in the kitchen should be turned off, system off. Then turn on one of your other thermostats on. You do have 3 thermostats, correct. Does the kitchen get hot at the baseboard? Yes or no?
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with the other zones heating correctly, and this one with a free swinging manual lever, meaning the thermostat has that zone open, we should talk boiler pressure, and purging,
post a couple wide angle shots of the boiler, circ, and those zone valves, all in one shot, couple angles so we see everything, and what is the system pressure?
that 3rd zone may be airbound, let's get it out,
known to beat dead horses0 -
The zone that isn't working is the one that is for the kitchen and livingroom.
Is that safe to open the zone box?
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ANd no the baseboard for the kitchen and livingroom is cold
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didn't you say the thermostat is opening the zone valve? and it's manual lever is free swinging,
the other zones are working, setpoints met and their levers have resistance?
the living room and kitchen may be air bound and need purging,
wide angle pictures?
known to beat dead horses0 -
the zone valve may be open but is the end switch closed?
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I am very familiar with this situation @homesgal53 . From the following descriptions :
- It was fine last winter but now the upstairs living room/kitchen is cold.
- The thermostat did say the batteries needed replacing which I did and the temp went up but now it's giving the same problems.
- The zone box is hot but the baseboards for that zone are cold.
- The tab for that zone moves with no resistance. (This means the valve is open)
It sounds like you have air in the pipes that go to the kitchen/living room. Are you a DIY adventurist? Do you think you can purge the air from that zone? With pictures of the pipes from farther away, I can describe the process for your system. If not then you need to call a heating guy that knows boilers. Sometimes they advertise as “Plumbing and Heating”
here is one DIY guy doing what is needed. Your boiler may be different
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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ididk What the end switch is?
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Can you tell if the circulator is running when ONLY the kitchen/living room zone is calling for heat?
It probably needs a purge, but need pics from farther back to show piping all around the boiler.
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There is resistance to the other 2 zones but not to the one for the kitchen/livingroom
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Ed, we still don't know if the circulator is running even if the zone valve is open…………………………….start there.
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With the photo I can tell you how to do the air purge. if you are interested. Look at the photo and tell be which zone valve (silver zone box) is the one for the kitchen. A, B or C
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Is there any other valve or part attached to the pipe above the orange handle valve I have marked as #1?
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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C
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No
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Check the watet pressure in the boiler. Ther should be a combination pressure temperature gauge on the boiler. The pressure should be between 12 and 20 psi. Report back if it is not.
Turn all the zone thermostats off (no call for heat) except the zone you are trying to fix. With that zone calling the zone valve should be open and the circulator should be running. Feel the pipes on both sides of the zone valve and see if they are hot. With that zone calling the lever on the zone valve should move back and forth with no resistance. That will prove the valve is open. Check to see if the circ pump is running
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- Turn off the boiler switch so all the zone valves and the burner can not operate.
- Get a garden hose and attached to the valve marked #2.
- look at the boiler gauge and see what the water pressure is. (should be between 10 and 15 PSI or 20 feet to 33 feet it your gauge has feet markings.
- Remember that pressure.
- All the zone valves should be closed. that means all the taps will have tension on them.
- with a flat screw driver, you need to close the #3 valve. (That can be difficult at times)
- Open the tab for the kitchen zone C and set it in the locked open position.
- Open the Orange valve #1 and the Blue valve #2 to start the purge process. atthe other end of the hose you will see water start to come out. it will be cold water then you will see air bubbles come out then you will see hot water from the boiler come out.
- Once the air is out close the orange & blue valves #1 & #2 to stop the water flow.
- Look at the boiler pressure gauge and see what the pressure is. Put it back to what pressure you started at. (if you started at lower than 10 PSI, then put the pressure to 10 PSI. The orange valve will make the pressure go up. Tlue will make the pressure go down. Adjust as needed.
- Put the C zone valve tab back to the automatic position
- Then open the #3 valve with the screw driver.
You can turn on the switch now to get the heat into that kitchen zone.
Pictures to follow. refresh this in bout 10 minutes
#3 valve opens when the screw driver slot is parallel to the pipe @#3 valve is closed when the slot is perpendicular to the pipe (horizontal)
Open and automatic position of the tab for the zone valve
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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The PSI is 0 and all the pipes connected to the zoneboxes are hot
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Circ pump????
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ok, that's likely your issue, (if the gage is accurate)
you need 12 psi in the boiler for starters,
we're assuming a basement lower level zone or 2, and an upstairs,
you're only up 1 flight of stair from the boiler, correct?
If you open Ed's orange fill valve, slowly, you should feed water into the boiler system, watch the gage and get it up to 12 psi,
the Circ, is the pump that circulates the water around the system, black thing low and forward on the right side of the boiler, opposite the water main and meter
known to beat dead horses0 -
But if that were the case shouldn't the whole house be cold with a psi below
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Yes one flight. So all I have to do it open the orange pipe and it's fixed
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no,
open the orange and throttle the water in, you need to shut orange when the boiler gets to 12,
that's just starters,
you may still need to purge as Ed explains above,
known to beat dead horses
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are the 2 working zones at the lower level, same as the boiler ?
you're setting boiler pressure to FILL the system to the upper, highest level, 12 psi is good for 2 floors up, but you'll be fine as long as the system is tight,
which brings us to,
how did it get to Zero?
was work done? past leaks? unexplaine wet spots?
known to beat dead horses0 -
Maybe. But watch the pressure. I don't see a pressure reducing valve. I see the water main and meter. Is there anything above the orange handle valve? If there's no pressure reducing valve, pressure will rise very fast once it builds pressure. Open the valve slowly, and let the pressure rise to 12 psi slowly. If it gets to 30 psi, things could get messy.
It will likely still need to be purged, in which case your going to want to match the incoming pressure to the outgoing if there's no PRV.
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Even if the gauge reads 0 you could have enough pressure to heat the lower floors. Gauges are inaccurate sometimes. Add water slowly and see if the gauge starts to move up if it does shut the water off at 15 psi.
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another thought, while it's at zero, check air pressure in the expansion tank, should also be 12 psi
known to beat dead horses0 -
Here are some other parts of your heater that others have referred to.
It is December now, so you can remove the holiday Decorations from the picture. They belong elsewhere this time of year.The expansion tank is supposed to have a factory pre charge of 12 PSI and you test that with a tire gauge when the boiler pressure is at zero PSI. That is why @neilc mentioned that. The Circ Pump that @EBEBRATT-Ed referred to is the black motor thing on the return pipe. It is actually a circulator pump that moves the water thru the pipes when the heater is operating. Jamie, HVACNUT, and LRCCBJ also mentioned the circulator pump.
Lets get the pressure up to 12 PSI first, and see if that gets the heat to the top floor. That may be all you need.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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air pressure first
known to beat dead horses0 -
All 3 zones are connected to the boiler on the same level. No work done no past leaks no wet spots
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The decorations have nothing to doeith the issue with the heat so dk why that was even mentioned
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The only thing above the orange are more pipes
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Ed likes to throw jokes, some of them stick(stink), right Ed?
known to beat dead horses1
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