Radiator vents start to make venting sounds once rads are full
30 min. mark 3 rads are full and vents are silent.
35 mins. mark, all 3 vents are now making sounds.
Thoughts?
Comments
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Did you:
1.Adjust your pressuretrol down?
2. Cut down on your venting?
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.1 -
what sounds?
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
Did not adjust pressuretrol for a few mental reasons
- I have no idea how to adjust it. 80 year old device can't be looked up online.
- Probably never serviced in decades. Not sure it even works
- Boiler tech the other day had no idea what a pressuretrol was. I told him it's set to 3, should we adjust it down? He replied, "Don't touch anything on old boiler. If it's running, leave it alone. If you turn a screw, it can break off" So he sufficiently scared me off from touching it.
This is a weird situation I have "inherited". I have no idea how boilers work. I have no idea if it's been serviced correctly. I have no one who can repair it. It feels like I've got an oddball 80 year old running car with the hood welded shut. Ticking timebomb. It feels like the only way out is to replace it for $20k so I have a normal modern boiler that average tech recognizes and knows how to service. Or, I need to find a competent boiler who knows what he's looking at
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You need a new tech, not a new boiler.
Did you try the "Find a Contractor" feature on this site?
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
Take a picture of the pressuretrol or pressure regulating device. I guarantee it's nothing we haven't seen.
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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He has, on another thread. He was also told how to adjust it.
You can lead a horse to water....
What he really needs is a steam pro who can set his system up correctly- evidently not the jamoker he hired.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
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Yes, I had a different guy from this forum come out. He said he would not service the boiler, too much liability, and gave me a quote for a new one.
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Is this the same pressure control which i told you how to adjust in another one of your threads? Go back and read that description.
I'll grant that it's old. That doesn't mean that it won't work just fine. It does mean that you can't look it up on line, but that's no big deal — we've told you how to work with it here, so you don't have to.
Furthermore, unlike much modern gadgetry, it's dead simple so you can work on it.
Now your tech — who clearly has no clue as to what he is doing with a steam boiler — does have one thing right: forcing a rusted screw can break it. That, however, is unlikely to be a problem. Not that I've never broken a screw or a bolt — I have, but only when I was really truly forcing it. I doubt that the adjusting screws on that control are that rusted.
If you take and post a picture of that pressure control — the whole thing, not just the face of it — we can locate the adjusting screws for you.
One thing I can guarantee, though: if you were to replace the boiler with a modern one, considering the tech. you seem to have it wouldn't be installed correctly, it wouldn't work properly, it would need constant maintenance, and it wouldn't last close to 80 years.
We still don't know where you are located. If you were to tell us that, we just might know someone whom you could contact who would actually know what they were doing.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
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I think we only discussed why it should be set to 1 & 1. There was no discussion of how to actually adjust the device. If I post photos of the inside, can you teach me how to actually adjust the pressuretrol device?
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That might be fair. What would help is a picture encompassing the whole control with a view of the top. That is where the adjustments are made if I recall correctly. There are two screws on the top one adjusts the one scale setting and the other adjusts the other. But go ahead and get a picture from a few small steps back.
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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This^^^
You don't need to get inside it to adjust it. Just use the two adjusting screws. That's what they're there for…
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England1 -
Here are a few pictures I already have. It's located directly to the right of the gauge. There are 2 other photos later in the slideshow. The boiler lid blocks access to the top of the pressuretrol. I have no idea how to move the lid as it encircles the header and seems hooked around it like a ringtoss game.
https://imgur.com/a/oil-boiler-tankless-coil-steam-heat-general-motors-delco-db-4s-WFbadvv
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Ok, let's start over. Where are you located? City, state.
We can then , hopefully, give you a recommendation.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
OK so I assume the scales are on the right side of the pressuretrol? Maybe the left side? It's likely then that the front cover of the pressuretrol needs to be removed. Does this sound correct? It looks like the cover can be removed by loosening the small knurled screw at the center bottom of the control.
You will want to shut the boiler of at the service switch before you remove that cover.
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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There was a picture of the pressure control for what I assumed was your boiler in a previous thread. Here:
Pressuretrol settings. Cut in @ 3 lbs. Diff @ 2 lbs. Thoughts ? — Heating Help: The Wall
Is that, in fact, the pressure control device for this boiler?
If it is, there should be two screws on TOP of the green box, right in line with the slots on the front. The one on the right should control the differential. The one on the left should control the cutin. The indicators on the front scales show what it's set for. See if those two screws
DON'T TRY TO TAKE THAT BOX APART. DON'T MESS WITH THE FOUR SCREWS HOLDING THE SCALES ON THE FRONT OF THE BOX.
Yes I am screaming.
I also see a float type low water cutoff. Has that ever been blown down? Does it cut the boiler off on low water?
I'm beginning to get worried…
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England1 -
Westchester County, NY
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Standing facing the boiler, the scales are on the left side (So, right side of the pressuretrol)
Here is the cover removed. It looks like the 2 screws on the left go through the top.
However, they are inaccessible unless I remove the lid of the boiler. Not sure how to do that since the lid is hooked around the header.
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@Jamie Hall I also see a float type low water cutoff. Has that ever been blown down? Does it cut the boiler off on low water?
Yes, I drain the LWCO weekly. I drain for 10-15 seconds until water is clear.
I have no idea if the switch has been tested. The boiler tech had no idea what it was. See my other thread for that exchange. Jamie, maybe you can help me find the heat exchanger on my boiler? See the other thread for a video I linked. The tech did not clean it, so I have no idea how to access the part you clean with the wire brushes and vacuum. Thanks!
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Lovely. Just lovely. Yes, those two long screws extending through the top are the ones you want to work with. Is there enough clearance at the top to get a needle nose pliers in there? If so, the thing to do is to put the cover back on so you can see what the indexes are pointing to and then take your needle nose pliers and grip the screws and turn them that way. One does what one has to do.
On the heat exchanger. It's the fire side of the exchanger — the body of the boiler, really — which needs the cleaning. I'd have to look at it to see how to get at it. The covers come off, but which ones need to go and how, and what cover plates are inside… as I say I'd have to look at it. To clean inside the firebox the burner has to be moved aside.
I honestly don't like to think ill of people, but really it sounds as though the tech you are working with shouldn't be trying to do this sort of thing.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England1 -
Hello CoachBoilermaker,
You may have gotten past where the adjustment screws are on the pressure switch and the need for a short or offset screw driver to adjust them, anyways I noted them in the picture.
Also If you want to be minimally invasive an not mess with the old crusty stuff but want the perks of newer accessory equipment. The pipe plug at the blue arrow (on top of the M&M 67 LWCO housing) in the picture could be removed (let the boiler cool down and lower the water level) and build your own water trap and add a pressuretrol and some gauges in front of the M&M 67 LWCO or off to one side or the other.
The pressuretrol could be wired into the low voltage thermostat circuit.
Some times you have to learn and do things for yourself.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
I understand your idea of using needle nose pliers on the shaft of the long screws, but what do you think is the official owner's manual method? How could someone make a boiler where the adjustment screws are totally inaccessible like this? Or is using 90 offset screwdrivers normal in boiler maintenance?
Or is it normal procedure to lift the lid. I am truly puzzled at how one would remove the lid on a boiler when it's got the header in the middle of it, so you can't slide it over. Do they disassemble the header and main just to remove the boiler lid? Seems nuts.
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People do all kinds of stupid things in this industry. And in all industries.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
2 -
Thanks for the idea, but modifying and adding devices is beyond my ability or understanding, particularly on an undocumented 80 year old boiler. The best I can do is follow directions and copy a video. Not do custom projects. Just don't have the experience level or in-person mentorship to improvise like that. Fear is driving me, not a great catalyst for growth.
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If you remove the insulation on the riser (its duck taped) you can lift the boiler lid up and use a short 2 by 8's on end to keep the lid up while you adjust the screws.
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Did not want to make huge changes at once, I used a ratcheting flathead bit driver to adjust the cut in down to 2. Did not touch the diff=2
If this cut in=2 makes the boiler not work anymore, I will put it back to 3.
It was lefty-loosey to make the slider go down. The slider barely moves when you turn the screw, so it took like 20 turns of the screw.
Thanks for your patience.
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It is common to find a pigtail and a pressuretrol connected to that tapping on top of the M&M 67 LWCO housing (that is where mine is). Using that tapping and building your own water trap (info. in one of your other threads) for an added pressuretrol and some functional gauges is not much of a stretch. Should be super easy for a Pro if needed.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
I ran the heat with cut-in=2 & diff=2
Boiler did not short cycle.
House is 63F at 0:00
Slide T'stat to 64. Boiler startsBoiler ran for 30 mins and turned off when room temp hit 65F
63F at 10:00
64F at 20:00
65F at 30:00 - Boiler turns off
67F at 40:00
67F at 50:00
67F at 1:00:000 -
Also, none of the vents were gurgling after the rad was full. This could be since the boiler hit the thermostat target right as the rads were filling, and pressure did not get a chance to build up. Boiler was off at 30:00. Last time, vents started gurgling at 35:00 mark
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