Debris inside cleanout ports

dietwawa

I had my furnace serviced this year and the tech pulled the cleanout port caps off. They are full of chips of debris (rust?)

The tech told me that the furnace is disintegrating and that it is likely that my heat exchanger could be cracked. He did not perform a combustion analysis. 🙄

I can't find any similar examples of this online.

Any advice is appreciated.

Jamie Hall

How long had it been since it was last cleaned? Makes a difference…

SlamDunk

Also, how old is it and did tech perform a combustion analysis? That combustion analysis may tell us if the heat exchanger rotted thru. Those are clearly rust flakes and not soot.

dietwawa

It's been 2-3 years since this has been vacuumed out. I've had the burner and oil filter serviced during that period but the caps have not been removed.

EdTheHeaterMan

That is normal for several years of operating with no vacuum cleaning. And those fancy red caps are not the ones the factory installed. You are the recipient of a Sales Oriented HVAC company service call. That picture would scare the average homeowner, However a seasoned technician would have seen this many times over the years and just completed the maintenance… no questions asked.

Get yourself another company and stop payment on that service provider's check or ask the credit card company to dispute the charges.  

dietwawa

@SlamDunk Based on the serial number I think it is 19 years old. Unfortunately a combustion analysis was not performed. I think I might have the company come back to give me those numbers.

EdTheHeaterMan

Here is your manual

https://www.manualslib.com/download/980783/Trane-Thv1m087a936.html

And I believe this is the part number for those caps but I can't be sure because I can not find the part diagram. I can only find the part list CAP00989 (second from bottom). any American Standard or Trane dealer can purchase that part from their equipment supplier. That part shows as ACTIVE on the "Trane and AS dealernet" website.

And the manual indicates that you remove "CAPS" to do the inspection and cleaning

You can usually find a Fuel Oil dealer, that would love to sell you fuel oil, that has an employee that will vacuum clean that furnace for you. 

OR 

Knows someone that will. 

Good luck with this

SlamDunk

I agree with @EdTheHeaterMan . That photo would scare an average homeowner and am one. I am scared because you dont have enough information. Not enough was done.

A vacuum and oil filter change is not enough after 2-3 years. You should also change the oil nozzle, check the oil pump pressure and get a combustion analysis; . A 19 year old furnace is pushing it. You don't know if you have a rotted heat exchanger where,at best, you burn more fuel than necessary, and at worst, you have flue gases entering your duct system. Do you have a sufficient draft or is there a pile of soot/rust at the base of your chimney blocking the flue vent? There is more to an oil furnace PM than what you got.

EdTheHeaterMan

@SlamDunk, I have been vacuum cleaning furnaces since 1975. The small amount of flake in that photo is nothing. It is the result of the condensation of flue gas that happens on every start up cycle until the HX gets to temperature and burns it off. A small amount of carbon attaches to the wet spots and accumulates there. Eventually there is enough weight on the side of the HX that the rust flakes off and looks like autumn leaves with one side black and the other side brown. The amount of actual metal that is missing from the HX is not even measurable.

Get a second opinion from a hungry fuel oil dealer!

EBEBRATT-Ed

you can usually tell if a furnace has a cracked hx by starting and stopping the indoor fan while checking the draft over the fire with the burner off. If the draft gauge moves, you have an issue

EdTheHeaterMan

Back in the day, before retirement, I was an American Standard dealer. I have installed that exact furnace many times. It is a robust oil burning appliance and should last you over 30 years. I'm not saying the the HX is not cracked anywhere. All I'm saying is that little bit of flaking is no proof of a cracked HX. In this illustration of what the HX looks like inside the metal cover, the bottom of a 20" high flue passage way is what you are looking at thru the clean-out port. (Red arrow) anything that happens at the top of that HX will fall to the bottom and look a lot worse that it is. the furnace can operate just fine with 4" of debris before having an issue. (see the Blue area)

Looking at the bottom of the outboard radiator if the HX (orange area) is easy to clean with a soot vac and a brush. Sometimes the soot-vac is just too heavy to lug into the basement, so just sell them they need a new furnace.

To test the HX for a crack, you need to test the draft with the blower on and off.  It should not change more than .01"WC on a draft gauge,  

You can also use a smoke bomb.  You light the smoke bomb and put it in the combustion chamber with the furnace off. If you see any smoke coming from the duct registers in the home, then you have a failed HX. I also take a smoke spot test in the plenum above the HX to see if there is smoke on the wrong side of the HX.  

Another test is to operate the burner, then look at the CO2 or O2 reading on your combustion analyser and see if the percentage changes more than 1%. from blower off to blower on, then back to blower off. No change = no crack

And the final test is a visual inspection that reveals a visible crack

Absent failing any of these tests, you have a good HX   

 If you do all four tests  Draft, Smoke, Combustion gas, and Visual, with a negative crack result, then you do not have a breach in the HX. Without the test, you are just guessing

SuperTech

I can definitely confirm that Ed is correct. That's nothing out of the ordinary. It's common to see that buildup on a furnace that hasn't been serviced or hasn't been serviced properly. Definitely reeks of scare tactics performed by a sales tech. Find another service provider who will do a proper cleaning and combustion analysis.

SlamDunk

I am not saying @EdTheHeaterMan, or anyone else, is incorrect. I am saying @dietwawa doesnt have enough information to know. @EdTheHeaterMan sold these and serviced them. He should know but that is a very educated gut assessment.

EdTheHeaterMan

Agree with @SlamDunk. it is only hunch. That is why @dietwawa should get a second opinion. Don't just rush into the new furnace on one say so. Based on the evidence presented, the prosecution has failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there is a failed heat exchanger. I would vote Not Guilty Slammy then do my testing.