Need to replace corroded supply to radiator
Comments
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believe your use of the term “cap” for the TRV controller was mistaken by @Jamie Hall for a electronic capacitor.
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The journey continues.
Here's a picture of the Honeywell TRV valve I bought. This is in the fully opened position.
The gap between the rubber gasket and the opening is very small. Is this as designed? Do I need to get some kind of tool and back off this thing higher to make the opening larger or something?
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Sorry quick follow up: I did not yet buy the actuating component. I want to do some more research to figure out which one I actually want. I figured this will work in the meantime in the fully open position. But now that I look at it I'm wondering if I need to open it up more manually? Or is it fine?
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What is the cv of it?
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The page where I bought it says 8. Is that what you're looking for?
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-Home-V110E1028-1-1-4-Angle-Valve-for-High-Capacity-Radiator
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That looks typical. Got you’re spud wrench ready? 😎
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I already got the spud out and put the new one in. It came out super easy, with just a pipe wrench and pipe extension. Everything looks good, on both sides.
Thanks for everyone's help!
However now I have a new problem. I'll post about it in a follow up.
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Okay here's my new problem: It's probably just ignorance of never having done PEX with crimp fittings before.
In the photos below you'll see my 1-in PEX B along with a stainless steel 1" threaded to 1" PEX transition fitting they sold me at the local supply house, and a copper ring I bought on Amazon. I also bought a crimp tool.
However The white PEX B tubing is too small for the fitting to slide inside of the tubing like I've seen in PEX B how to videos. I thought that it is only for PEX A that you have to expand the tubing open to fit over a fitting...? I thought that PEX B fittings are meant to go inside of the tubing and then you crimp it with the copper ring?
Did the supply House sell me the wrong fitting? Is this fitting for PEX A? Can I get an expansion tool and expand PEX B to go over top of this fitting? However I do not think if I expand it and get it over the fitting that the copper ring will fit in over the expanded pipe anymore. Or maybe this is the wrong size of fitting...?
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Looks like the wrong fitting for that tubing. It should be a tight fit but they shouldn't be the same od.
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Crap. I already put pipe dope on two of them and tightened them into elbows and have them installed up the ceiling cavity and everything. Crap crap crap.
Why would a reputable plumbing supply store sell me this fitting when I specifically told them that I was using PEX B? What the hell man. Dangit.
Another question: does all PEX B have a O2 barrier? I don't see on this tubing where it says it has it but I asked a guy at Home Depot if this is the right tubing for hydronic systems and he said yes.
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Look up the certifications printed on the pex.
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That’s frustrating but better to find out now! Hopefully you will find a O2 barrier pex that will fit your couplers. Check with supply house to see what tubing they recommend.
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I might end up having to do that. I am hoping to find 1" O2 barrier PEX somewhere that is open tomorrow. Maybe Menards will have it.
Uggghhh I was really looking forward to having this all done late tonight. Man. Ah well.
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Menards does have PEX A with oxygen barrier in stock. It is also rated high enough for the temperatures (200 degrees; I really only need to run it at 140).
The fittings I have are for PEX A so it looks like I need to switch to PEX A instead of PEX B for this. I even bought the PEX B crimping tool and everything! Darn.
I'm trying to understand what I need to make the proper connections... do I just need to buy the expander tool and that's all? Is there some kind of ring for PEX A too?
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or just do it in copper. with a couple unions and some planning you can sweat a couple subassemblies on the bench and just screw in adapters with unions and screw the unions in to place. it looks like there was some od/id miscommunication with the fitting. there is the argument about burying unions in a ceiling but i would have the same issue with crimp ring pex.
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Well just because of the geometry I do not think there's any way I could get it all put together with fewer than 8 total connections across two runs (vs 4 total for the PEX). This is why I went with PEX in the first place. Still thinking it's the right choice.
Also mixing copper into my existing black iron pipe system just scares me.
After doing a bit more research I think I know how to make this connection now (use the expansion tool with the PEX A sleeves). I'll just buy the expansion tool and return the crimping stuff I bought. Good thing about getting it from Amazon I guess, easy to return it.
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the expansion fitting is a special fitting for expansion, it isn't just the pex a sleeve
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I understand. Like this, right? (This picture is from a YT video, not from my project, but this is how I am doing it.)
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I'd recommend reading the wirsbo instructions because there are a few important points about how you do it most notably that the cone needs to rotate between expansions so it doesn't make a ridge. Make sure you find oxygen barrier pex since unlike mixing copper and iron, non barrier tubing will corrode your system.
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If you read the label of the PEX pipe you are using you will find its for potable water only.
expansion rings are used with uponor/wirsbro pex piping. not interchangeable.
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This is the actual PEX that I'm using. I think it's the right kind? Yes, it's O2 barrier.
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Well I have everything connected and buttoned up. But I have a new problem.
I opened up the gate valves to refill, and it is refilling very very slowly. I hear water coming in but it is incredibly slow. I have the bleed valves open on a couple of the first floor radiators to let air come out and a little bit of air is coming out very slowly. So water is coming in but boy is it coming in slow.
From what I have read I should be able to fill this whole system in 5 to 10 minutes if everything was working right. So clearly something is wrong.
I'm wondering if It is finally time to admit defeat and call an HVAC guy. I have no idea how to troubleshoot this problem.
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”From what I have read I should be able to fill this whole system in 5 to 10 minutes if everything was working right. So clearly something is wrong.”
5-10 minutes is not realistic for old systems with large radiators. My system take 20 minutes with pressure valve set to fill.
Remember, system filles from bottom. Close the 2nd level bleeder valves and leave a couple of 1st floor radiator bleeder open. Allow system to fill until water spit out. Once two are filled, open two more, repeating and moving upstairs until all radiators have filled and been bled of air.0 -
that's a pretty old fill valve that probably looks as bad inside as does your rad feed line,
replace it,
or, the bottom nut there should be a screen, needing cleaning, but, again, the pipe in and out may be packed with crud as well,
replace it
known to beat dead horses0 -
Thanks guys!
Yes I am sitting here on the first floor with eyes on the two nearest radiators waiting for water to trickle out onto towels. It's been over an hour and still no water.
I'll give cleaning it a try but I will definitely replace it later.
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I see that it does say it is suitable for potable water but does that mean I can't use it for this application? It's O2 barrier. And it is good up to 200°. The water that I'm putting in it is potable to begin with. What's the problem?
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wow, that’s too long. Recommend you look near boiler to make sure isolation valve are open (if present). Then open a drain line at bottom of boiler to get an idea of how much water is entering system via fill valve. If just a dribble you’ll need to replace per @neilc.
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Lots of water comes out the drain valve fast. It was totally empty when I started. So it's filling it's just super slow. Sigh. As I said before I do hear water coming in and when I turn the valve off the sound stops so it's definitely coming in.
I'm scared to take the nut off the bottom of this reducing valve! I don't really know what I'm doing. I don't have any pressure gauges to make sure I get it set back to the right pressure... Will taking off this bottom nut potentially affect the preset pressure?
Man I was really hoping to be able to turn on the heat for my family tonight. It's pretty cold out.
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Old galvanized fill lines are often full of crud. Sure water is even getting in? Another spot is the strainer in certain PRV's.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
I'm sure water is getting in. I can hear it when I put my ear right against the pipe and it stops when I close the valve. And the boiler was completely empty when I started and now it spurts water if I turn the drain on.
I tried to turn the nut on the bottom of the PRV to get at the strainer but the entire pipe assembly begins to twist and I'm going to damage something if I keep trying to get it off. I think I'm just going to sit here and make myself a Negroni while I wait.
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Well no success.
Here's a question: the refilling assembly flows into the return side where the circulation pump is. Should I try turning on the circulation pump...? If that's a good idea then how can I make the circulation pump turn on? Do I turn the thermostat all the way up and then turn the pump switch on?
Or am I likely to burn up the pump trying to do that?
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Doesn't look like that prv has a way to fast fill, might want to hook a garden hose to a laundry tub or something and one of the drains and fill it that way at least most of the way.
The potable marking on the pex just means it is safe for use in potable water systems.
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Are you saying that as long as I don't fill it all the way and fully pressurize it with the garden hose, it won't damage anything even though it's supplying more like 60 psi rather than the 12 or so psi the system is intended for?
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Somewhere around 30 PSIG the safety will release.
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Oh of course the safety duh. Ok garden hose it is!
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Success on the refilling! I did get a little bit of water on the ground from the safety. Just a little bit.
I opened up the bleed valve on the last radiator and let it squirt water until it was just dripping to release the built-up pressure. So the system should just be at just over 12 PSI at the bottom (I do not have any pressure gages on the system; I plan to add that at some point).
After I oil my pump, is there anything else I need to do before turning the pump on and circulating water? I assume there's probably still air in there and it will find its way to the radiators and I will continue to have to bleed it a little bit....
After I get the water moving I will then see if I can get the boiler lit. Which I've never had to do before.
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Also: is this a good option for replacing my PRV and backflow preventer?
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I like the Caleffi ones myself, they do auto fast fill but for that system it might make sense to add a manual bypass.
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Great recommendation! I just ordered this one:
Has a pressure gage and everything. Just a little bit more spendy but that auto fast fill is certainly worth it.
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