Remove section(s) from American Radiator Co. units

mdmhh256

I have two American Radiator Co. units and would like to attempt to shorten one or both of them (one has a cracked section, the other too large for my buttoned up house). I looked at the advice in forum not sure if/how to apply to my units. The first one has two squarish knobs at the top of each section which rest against the knobs on the adjoining section, plus two rods tying all the sections together. The bottoms of each section are joined with nipples, but no rods. The section on appears to have nipples at both the top and bottom, but no rods.

Steamhead

Don't even think about taking them apart. They're assembled with right-and-left-hand threaded nipples, which will be impossible to get apart after over 100 years of service. We've tried, they just end up breaking.

Where is the one radiator leaking?

AdmiralYoda

I agree…these types of radiators are not going to come apart successfully. Give us some details on the cracked section, if may be repairable.

And you can make a radiator "feel" smaller by putting the smallest vent you can install on it, putting a blanket on top, or putting it in an enclosure.

Jamie Hall

Or, if your system is two pipe, just partly closing the inlet valve…

mdmhh256

i can see if i can markup a photo to indicate where. Kind of a hard to reach area (inside between 2 sections) and I have tried cleaning it off and applying JB Weld - helped some but not completely.

that said, i may have a lead on a replacement that is smaller so that could address the leak and one of the too large units.

I am in talks to have my boiler replaced and hope to have this resolved before then.

mdmhh256

Forgot to add…. 1 pipe system.

PolychromeUganda

I haven’t seen any radiator sections that were joined using threaded nipples, all of the radiators I’ve ever dealt with were joined using “push nipples”, which are simply tapered steel tubing. Left right threaded nipples can be rotated to pull sections together. They have dimples where left meets right that are engaged by a specialty tool. The close fit between the sections shown looks too close for left-right threaded nipples, there’s not enough gap to engage dimples.

If I’m understanding the photos correctly, I see places where a dozen layers of old alkyd enamel paint has popped off, but I don’t see anywhere with telltale rust streaking to show a crack so I can’t guess if the problem is a middle section or an end section or someone seeing a crack in the paint that isn’t a crack in the casting. You would need a machine shop to deal with an end section because it needs tapped holes

Begin by sending the radiators to a paint stripper to lose all that paint. They have spray hoses and trays and breathing gear. You could spend a week painting on Zip-Strip and using a long handle wire brush to take off one or two layers at a time. I’m sure moving them isn’t a popular idea but the chances of the hardwood floors going unscathed aren’t that good. If there are stairs involved, rent a refrigerator dolly to get them outside.

With the paint off a very well equipped shop can pre-heat the entire casting and braze any cracks closed. If you can’t find a machine shop that well equipped you can delete the cracked sections. Again, a machine shop will be better equipped to do it. You will need push nipples the required size or to have a machine shop make them, A cracked middle section can be removed by hack-sawing the section top&bottom the adjacent push nipples are carefully sawn to almost slit them with 4 cuts 1/4” apart, then the center 1/4” is knocked into the center before the rest of the push nipple is tapped inward (radially) with a chisel to release it from the casting. a dagger saw with a hack saw blade makes this much less of a drudge. Do not allow any cut to nick the casting. when in doubt use the chisel more and the saw less.

pushing the remaining sections together with 2 new push nipples was originally done by greasing the nipples and tightening the rods. For an old radiator like this it’s better to use pipe clamps top and bottom and some rectangular steel section or a 4x4 running top to bottom to deliver the clamping force along the axis of the push nipples to avoid stressing the end sections as much as possible. If there’s any pitting in the section where the push nipple has to seal it can be filled with “Babbiting”, a soft metal. You can make-do with tin-antimony or tin-lead solder wire. Just hammer the wire to a foil and let the push nipple crush it into the pits and wipe away whatever isn’t needed.

The radiators are a very attractive casting. They look pre WWI or earlier, the valves are pre-WWI, the knobs are a post wwii replacement bakelite knob that doesn’t get as unbearably hot to the touch as the original dud. The vents (shiny mid-height at opposite end) look like post WWII automatic thermally operated vents. The vents will be rust plugged. Disassemble and clean them out. They’re on 1/8” pipe nipples. The nipples may disintegrate when you remove the vent, but even if they don’t replace the nipples with stainless. Use rector seal no 5 to seal the threads, not Teflon tape. The vents are installed upside down from the ones I’ve encountered in the past, but I haven’t seen every vent ever made.

You adjust the output of steam radiators by adjusting the setting of the vent. How hot the vent gets before it closes determines the ratio of trapped air to live steam in the radiator and that determines the surface temperature of the radiator when the steam is on. The spring inside is thermally sensitive, there should be an adjustment for when it closes. A pot of boiling water to dip it into may help you follow how it works. All air is a cold radiator that puts out no heat. All steam is a radiator that leaves a deep impression if you lean on it … literally. The hand operated valve is not used to throttle or adjust the heat output. It’s only used to shut the radiator off entirely.

The radiators should pitch slightly back to the valve so that condensed steam returns to the steam line and ultimately to the boiler. Banging pipes happen when steam tries to push through a puddle of water and instantly condenses causing a low pressure shock wave. Add and adjust hangers to the steam lines in the basement to compensate for settling of the structure to stop hammering.

Jamie Hall

One of the radiators does look like it has tension rods, at least on top — which may mean that it has push nipples. Or maybe not (there should be two sets, top and bottom, if it does have push nipples). I don't see tension rods in the other — which means it does not, and is almost certainly, as @Steamhead said (and he's usually right…) left/right threaded nipples. Not happening…

AdmiralYoda

Those are some beautiful radiators…if you decide to part with them there are many on here that would like to offer them a new home 😎

Lyle {pheloa} Carter

Lots of good advice on repairing the leaking radiator, as others have said, it depends on how it is assembled.

However, the oversized radiator, has an easier solution as long as the physical size is not a problem. I have remedied this problem many times using a Danfoss 013G0140 Thermostatic Rad Valve w/ Vac Breaker. This is a temperature controlled valve which will control the amount of air exiting the radiator. This controls the amount of steam entering the radiator. When the room reaches a preset temperature, the valve will restrict the amount of steam entering the radiator, maintaining a set temperature.

The one complaint I received using this type of valve. Even though the room maintained the set temperature. The tenant felt the radiator was not working correctly because only half of the radiator would heat up.

mdmhh256

Thanks for the tip on the Danfoss Valve. Related, I wonder if putting a slower vent on a big radiator will increase time it takes for pressure to build and delay pressuretrol cut-in ? If yes, then maybe the thermostatic valve would be a better solution than a smaller vent ?

tim smith

it Takes specially made tools to get them apart and reassembled. Plus probably need new R/L nipples and paper gaskets. There is a company in England that takes them apart, fully cleans them and reassembles. Fully tested and will even oil rub bronze them. Short of that, there was a company in Canada that did some types of restos, not sure if they were set up to do American rococos.

tim smith

here is the company in Canada who dismantles, cleans, assembles and finishes. Ecorad in Quebec. Here is a video of process. Includes pulling R/L nipples.

https://youtu.be/u80deRwAgCM?si=03fvi3-2y1nOcAW7

Just FYI

ECORAD_USA

Hi mdmhh256, you can contact us, ecoradinc.com that's what we do.

All types of cast iron radiators we can resize.

Charlie from wmass

I currently have a long-term project radiator that I am attempting to shorten. I do not see it being feasible to do it for consumer because I do not have the tools to properly assemble and disassemble the radiator like they did at the factory. I find it interesting that the original paperwork about these radiators touted how great they were for disassembly and reassembly. As Jamie said the radiator with the draw rods can be separated and new push nipples can be machined if the push nipples are leaking.

acavan

We're huge fans of Ecorad. We sent our nine radiators from San Francisco to Quebec and were thrilled with their restoration which included removing three cracked sections. (If only they came back as fancy looking as yours…) Besides looking infinitely better, they definitely perform better with a century or so of sludge and scale removed. Here are photos of one of two pallets, a before, and an after.

ethicalpaul

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1811470#Comment_1811470

No, I don't think so. A slower vent on any radiator will increase the time for the radiator to fill with steam which will tend to make pressure in the system build faster, all else equal.

You can take this to its logical conclusion by imagining replacing all radiator vents with plugs…the equivalent of putting the very slowest vents on…

ChrisJ

The one radiator appears to only have rods at the top where there's no connections.

I believe Steamhead is correct on both radiators, there's no push nipples there.

SKYPAINTER

Yeh, what they said, lol. Save yourself the aggravation, Burnham aka. US Boiler Co. Lancaster, PA sells these same rads to this day, go to their website

https://www.usboiler.net/product/classic-cast-iron-radiator.html

Charlie from wmass

@ECORAD_USA I remember meeting you up on the turnpike with a truck load of radiators heading to Rocky Hill.

tim smith

I like restored American radiator rococcos better than us boiler marginal rococco and will be cheaper to restore.

Haloyloy770

the top radiator looks to be a “steam only” radiator, and should have push nipples on the bottom, you can tell because the top of the sections don’t connect like the bottom (although with that air vent facing down you won’t get much steam 😉)

The bottom radiator looks like it could be used for both water and steam, and I believe thous has the “thread on nipples)