How to repair cement substance from oil boiler to oil burner

fsamo123

I got some cement like substance cracking and falling off by my oil burner of a very old arcolina American standard boiler I’m afraid it might contain asbestos it’s also coming off of flu pipe to chimney how can I repair these 2 problems is asbestos a concern? I was thinking of using furnace cement but I am unsure thank you

fsamo123

here is a picture of boiler

Mad Dog_2

It MAY be ACM (asbestos containing material). Assume it is. With out getting crazy, spray down with water, apply High Temp Furnace Cement over it and flash it out smooth. Mad Dog

HVACNUT

Who services the burner and boiler?

I can't tell from the pics, but the burner doesn't seem to be supported by a pedestal. Is there a piece of pipe or something propping up the burner?

The cement is around the air tube because the burner it replaced had a larger diameter air tube. Not exactly "by the book", but passable... last century.

That also doesn't look like a Firomatic valve. If it is, its really old.

What combustion numbers are you getting?

fsamo123

mattmia2

@HVACNUT is asking about what the combustion analysis was from the oil burner tech when they serviced it. Oil burners need o be serviced every year or maybe 2.

fsamo123

should i use furnace cement where flu is going to chimeny too.

the unit is probaly from 1950 s amazingly it doesnt leak water i have been told to get rid of it 20 years ago but it wont die anyhow in order to remove it the pluber says he has to use wedges to break out sections i heard it might have asbestos jacket under sheet metal case and gaskets doors section etc probably have asbestos too i have a small flight of stairs out of basement and told him im willing to pay more if somehow it can be taken out in one piece. my daughter has small children that have a family room in basement. this asbestos problem terrifies her, i think its blown out of proportion but you never know. nobody can believe this unit still works any advice etc would be greatly appreciated i still have option of getting a hyper minisplit system to heat the house which is way cheaper than oil.

fsamo123

thanks mad dog if I apply the furnace cement to the air pipe don’t I have to have

boiler running to make the furnace cement cure. What brand furnace cement do you recommend. It’s still too warm where we live until winter comes and I fire up the boiler

Steamhead

@fsamo123 , don't believe the hype- minisplits don't work well when it gets real cold. Keep the steam, at least for the cold months. Does your house have natural gas service?

mattmia2

What is the device on the left side, is it a lwco?
It needs to be serviced annually but no particular reason to replace it until it leaks.

There should be more clearance between the barometric damper and the drywall.

fsamo123

I can’t get gas yet and I’m worried this old unit can go because it’s so old it seems to be like a tank it has even out lastet new ones my neighbors got it seems like the cast iron sections are extremely thick compared to ones built today it makes great heat and is very simple to work on. Old timers tell me to run it til it dies that’s what scares me , like how much longer can this thing last they don’t make things like this anymore, burner Lwco are new . So that’s why I was thinking of buying a new one. It’s steam and it still works well

Steamhead

I'd hold off on replacement until you can get gas put in, if that might happen in the next year or two. Where are you located?

HVACNUT

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1810480#Comment_1810480

I'm sorry, is that not an atmospheric gas fired water heater right next to the boiler? What are we doing here?

fsamo123

Very difficult in nyc to get permits to change over to gas heat now in nyc they have made it very hard legally and fines are huge. They are pushing everyone new construction etc to go electric they want people to decommission fossil fuels etc. new constructions by 2025 are banned etc I’m hoping this old unit can keep on kicking even with very high prices of oil

fsamo123

If your old unit gas or oil needs to be replaced it will be banned only fixed

fsamo123

so my plan will probably use ministers hyper Mitsubishi and keep old unit to back up very cold days

fsamo123

I have money to replace oil boiler but a lot of asbestos is also on inside of unit so I don’t want it broken up in the house , so I’m trying to find out how heavy is the 3 section boiler and if I can get it out in one piece so even if I can change over to gas that a huge problem for me

fsamo123

Also I’m lucky there is no asbestos on pipe insulation cause abatement prices are crazy high over here

fsamo123

Everyone here is telling me to hold off on mini split and wait, they say these old cast iron boilers can last 80 years sometimes, and will out last anew one. They say even when they start leaking it will be a very slow leak and I’ll have time to get through winter and make a decision

I still got 1940 refrig in my garage still working perfectly things were made well. This boiler is same age as me it’s amazing I’m not worried about efficiency

pecmsg

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1810508#Comment_1810508

BS

Where did you come up tith that?

mattmia2

The asbestos i would be worried about is the furnace cement around the burner and the chimney commections that is flaking apart. If the boiler is replaced it can be contained as it is disassembled, that is safer than hoping stuff doesn't fall out as you move the whole thing. It almost certainly came in in pieces and was assembled where it is now. There may be more asbestos furnace cement or gaskets between the sections and covers, but most of the asbestos if it exists will be inside the panels and will come off with the panels which can be wrapped or bagged and removed intact.

It could leak tomorrow, it could last another 30 years or more but any boiler over about 15 years old falls in that category.

fsamo123

Matt Mia2

I saw a fiberglass insulation coming from under the cover but don’t know if there is also an asbestos blanket with it if there is is this stuff very friable like the air cell asbestos pipe insulation I don’t want my finished basement contaminated for months that is only reason I been holding off on the changing of the unit my daughter has very young children I don’t care about myself etc I just worried if too much is released

pecmsg

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1810551#Comment_1810551

then hire an abatement contractor now!

Why take the chance the kids won’t play with it.

fsamo123

thank you guys for all the help I have a service contract with my oil delivery last year I wasn’t home but my wife had a problem with no heat

The technition replaced the becket oil burner with the one shown I never saw the cement stuff on the air tube before.. So did the boiler have a different size air tube for the Beckett and that’s why the technician use this cement on the new recently put burner? I never seen this done before I’m assuming it’s gray furnace cement

It looks like only one coating of cement so it’s been done recently

mattmia2

There may have been corners cut if they did it as an emergency repair. Might wan to see if they'll come back and do it with the right parts.

HVACNUT

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1810764#Comment_1810764

That's not a new burner. Maybe a rebuilt burner.

The original burner that came with the boiler was a conventional low speed burner. When converting to a high speed burner, because there's no feasible way to secure it to the boiler, the burner should be mounted on a pedestal (offered by Beckett), and the air tube cemented in place at the correct insertion depth.

fsamo123

From what I’m being told is they are using that cement to secure the burner to the boiler because I never saw cement there before. I assumed it was used to stop air leaks etc and the burner was somehow bolted on to the boiler

So the new air tube might haveg been slightly smaller going into the boiler?

It worked good for the whole year like that though

EdTheHeaterMan

The oil burner in this picture is a Beckett AF or AFG that has been rebuilt or repaired with a Carlin Ignition and a Carlin Primary Control.

The cement around the fire tube does not contain asbestos. here is the MSDS

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.supplyhouse.com/manuals/1348060979417/80827_PROD_FILE.pdf

The holding bracket is a clamp that squeezes on the fire tube. That bracket does not have an air tight seal so the furnace cement is being used to form a fire resistant gasket. (rather poorly I might add) That bracket may not be sufficient for that setup and I would recommend RW Beckett part number 5686 to support the burner properly.

It may already be there but it is difficult to see because the last service technician did not clean the boiler/burner area when he was finished servicing the boiler/burner. It may be covered in all that debris.

I am not a fan of that type of furnace cement because is cracks off, separates, and forms sharp edges when it cures. Looks nice if done right, when you are finishing up the job. You can get paid then. But give it a day or so and it ends up looking like that picture above.