expansion tank
Seven years ago I pretty much re plumbed my entire heating system. I also have limited space so a lot of stuff is crammed together. I did not have the space for the expansion tank so I hung it from the ceiling. Looking at the directions for mounting the tank it is currently not installed correctly. it is also now leaking so I need to replace the tank. I also don't see how I can install it from the ceiling and follow directions. My old tank hung from the ceiling for 30 years with no problems, this one lasted 7 years. I still have the old tank and the frame work for mounting. The new tank and the one I am currently using is a Amtrol EX-60. Is there advantages for the new style tank or should I just go back to the old style?
Comments
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Maybe try the Pro series. It is a lined tank with a stainless nipple.
Various opinions on mounting. Nipple up is preferred, but several manufacturers now show horizontal option.
Properly sized and pre-charged?
The #60 has about the same acceptance as the #30. But it does have a bigger air space.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
A bladder tank does not have to be mounted at the ceiling.
Bob Boan
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.0 -
When you did the "Re-plumb" were there air vents involved? If you installed automatic air vents, then you have made your system incompatible with your old steel tank. Venting air to the atmosphere from a closed system may eventually evacuate the air cushion from the top of that tank because the air is in direct contact with the water surface. Lots of science and physics to explain why. Understanding Boyle's Law will help. The bladder or diaphragm tanks that have a separation between the air and the water must be used when venting air to the atmosphere.
If you redesign the piping properly with a way to separate the air in the system from the water in the system and then cause that air to find its way to the old steel tank, then you will have a really good design. Chances are that you didn't design it that way. But some photographs will help to determine that.
My advise is to go with @hot_rod"s suggestion.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I wish I would have understood thing better years ago when I undertook this project. Extrol shows nipple down and water at top of tank. It makes more sense to have water at bottom of tank. I believe that was what you suggested. I do not have the room like Ironman shows or I would have put this tank lower somewhere. I have in the system what I think is called a hydraulic seperater, they have an air purger at the top so as EdTheHeaterMan said I can't put the old tank back in use. It looks like I need to rotate my tank so water is down and keep an eye on the air pressure in the tank. To do a replumb job as extrol shows would be a tremendous job and I am not up to it. Is it possible to remove what I am thinking you called the nipple and put in a pipe and a 90 and re plumb it a little to make it easier to add air if needed?
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I confuse real easy. Could you post a picture of what kind of tank you have, and how it is connected to the system?
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
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I am leaning to go with Hot Rods suggestion. Except I have already got from Supply House the same tank I already have. I think I will rework by overhead hanger and hang the tank Horizontal. this time put a union in the supply line so it can be replaced easily. Horizontal I can check the pressure easily, or add a little air if need be. That vertical 1/2 inch line is tied into that black horizontal pipe which is the return pipe from all the zones. You can see a brass tee at that return line. above the tee the 1/2 inch line goes to the expansion tank, below the tee water enters the system, filling the boilers if a valve is opened or adding water to the system.
![20240904_081451[1].jpg](https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/UZL6TG0PK11B/20240904-081451-5b1-5d.jpg)
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Looks like I lost a picture, here is another.
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That is the best way to position that tank. If you invert that tank so the labels are upside down, you may find that the tank fails sooner. I don't think the manufacturer places the labels upside down on purpose. I believe that labels are placed on those tanks properly and the water is at the top and the air is at the bottom by design. A few will say that it does not matter, but if you ask the manufacturer, the preferred installation is the water connection at the top.
Annual maintenance should include checking the air pressure in that tank at the beginning of each heating season WITH A PRESSURE GAUGE. Add air as needed. just putting your fingernail on the Schrader valve to hear air come out is the exact wrong way to test that tank. All that does is let more air out. and you want the air to stay in the tank. common knowledge is that the membrane will allow some air to pass thru over time. and that can lower the empty tank air pressure by as much as 1 PSI per year, and that fingernail test will lower the pressure even more. after a few years of that, your tank will be undersized. Adding air pressure may fix it if the membrane has not failed by the time you figure out that you have a problem.
Where does the connector pipe actually connect to the system in relationship to the air separator and the circ pump(s). since everything is so tight, (great job getting all that in such a small place) can you draw a simple line diagram without all the elbows That would be called the point of no pressure change (PONPC) and can be to know where that is on the system.
Could it be something like A or B or C or is your system entirely different.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Nothing wrong with the way that tank is installed. But I would use copper instead of galvanized and put a union in the tank connection.
CAUTION. If removing and the tank is full of water drill a hole in the tank to let the water out.
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how did the last tank fail? Pin hole in the metal? That indicates air/ oxygen getting to the metal
I’m not sure how to avoid dead end piping as Amtrol suggests,Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
I said this was plumbed wrong. your c line going to the red supply is where it should have been. Instead it is on the blue pipe directly below. there is a brass tee there and can be seen in the first picture. at the bottom of the tee the supply line feeding water to the boilers is connected there.
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The tank is not installed as suggested by other comments and by Amtrol. I am defiantly going to install a union. I though of the water also. I have installed a piece of metal to the top of the hanger and put a rope through that and tied a rope to the tanks pipe on top. I should be able to ease the tank down with that. A big disaster would occur if that tank fell. Thanks for the tip
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I noticed a run that should not have been on the tank. I would rather replace it now instead of in the dead of winter.
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Then put a tee and an air vent on top of the expansion tank.
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I looked at supply house and they have several air vents, what would you suggest?
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