Fireplace gas insert ventless

zkg

hi

I want to install Dual Fuel Ventless Gas Fireplace Insert - 26,000 BTU, Remote Control FDF300R in existing fireplace which has internal dimensions 43.5 by 28.5 inches…

Would there be gap when I place this insert inside existing fireplace? If so how do I cover those gaps … it feels like fireplace opening is large Mr than insert …

IMG_2065.png

IMG_2064.jpeg

kcopp

Not a fan of vent free fireplaces or heaters.

All those fumes go somewhere not to mention all the water vapor.

I dont install them… dont recommend them.

Larry Weingarten

Hi, I know it isn't your question, but please reconsider using ventless technology. Here's something on it: https://www.realtor.com/advice/home-improvement/is-a-ventless-gas-fireplace-safe/?msockid=0b03a3a8c0df635522d8b74ec10b62d1 From my perspective any amount of CO in the living space is too much. Then there is how this can affect your home's resale value…

Yours, Larry

Jamie Hall

In answer to the direct question, gap covers do exist — and I'd be surprised if your stove dealer didn't have them.

HOWWEVER

Having said that, I will third, with bells on, the guys above: ventless gas heating appliances have NO safe application inside a residence. Even gas kitchen ranges are somewhat dubious (in my view they should, without exception, have an operating range hood with outside exhaust which is actually used — and they don't operate for that long at a time. But a heating appliance? No.

And before you say oh he's an environmental freak, not true. I'm not. But there are some safety items which are over the line, and ventless gas heaters are one of them.

zkg

thanks - what would recommend to install for gas or wood burning insert … my current flue size is 13X8…

Jamie Hall

Should be able to install any good gas burning fireplace insert, if the flue is any good, and most wood burning inserts as well. If that flue, it should be big enough.

Bob Harper

This is not an insert- it is a close clearance VF fireplace. Inserts are designed to be inserted into an existing masonry fireplace that passes an NFPA 211 level II inspection. This fireplace was designed to be built into a combustible wall. Inserts typically come with a backing plate/ surround/ overlay hanger flat panel that closes up the gaps you're concerned about.

if you're hell bent on installing a VF appliance (we call them "lung vented") then why not just install a logset into the open hearth of the existing fireplace, close the damper and breathe deeply? Note: If this is a metal factory built fireplace, you cannot install a VF appliance unless that fireplace was tested and listed under the optional test in UL 127. Also, pay close attention to the clearances to any combustible mantel, makeup air, no stray drafts, no sunken firebox or glass enclosure and get a low level unlisted CO monitor.

JakeCK

I had one in my old masonry fireplace for years. I stopped using it. I couldn't get past the smell(CO is odorless but all the s* in the air that gets burned and causes incomplete combustion certainly isn't).

It could also easily overheat the mantel. I could "safely" operate it but I wouldn't trust anyone else in the house too.

I ended up removing it and the gas line some years ago. I've been thinking about a wood burning insert for a while as a back up heat source.

ChrisJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1808828#Comment_1808828

I'm guessing it smells like a LPG forklift?

Jamie Hall

Pretty much,, @ChrisJ . Quite distinctive, once one has identified it. It's unavoidable without catalytic converters — it's various nitrogen oxides.

ChrisJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1808837#Comment_1808837

I have to be honest.

It's not a bad smell, much better than a gasoline engine. I don't even mind it coming from a grill when grilling.

But I don't want it in my living room.

JakeCK

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1808835#Comment_1808835

Not quite. Forklifts are much worse.

Bob Harper

FYI, the ANSI Z21.11.2b listing allows for a maximum rise in surface temps within 18" around the fireplace up to 117F plus the ambient room temp. This also determines if a non-combustible hearth extension or one with Micore insulation board are required. Most people cannot tolerate 140F more than a few seconds. Above this is not considered a fire hazard because it's still well below the level that could cause pyrolysis. It can damage items on the mantel such as candles, clocks, oil paintings, or antiques. Paint often softens to the point it becomes sticky like fly paper. Airborne dust particulates stick to the mantel causing the homeowner to erroneously think it is soot.

The odors are typically aldehydes caused by incomplete combustion: paraldehyde and acetaldehyde and NOx, primarily nitric oxide, which is a respiratory irritant. As Jamie mentioned, catastrophic combustors, once lit off, typically eliminate the aldehydes but may make NOx at high temps.. Nitric Oxide (NO) is every man's best friend- look it up ;-) It has a sharp, sweet smell. It's PEL/REL are 25mg/ cubic meter over 8 hr.s; IDLH at 150 ppm

Nitrogen Oxide has a nasty odor, is toxic, with a PEL of 5ppm(9mg/m3) a REL of 1ppm(1.8mg/m3) and IDLH at 13ppm. Bad stuff.

NOx at parts per BILLION can be respiratory irritants. Not fun.

If you smell that funky odor at a gas vent termination more than a few moments, get out your combustion analyzer and see what's going on. You can use it on a VF fireplace: hold the wand at the floor to see if the ambient O2 starts dropping while burning. If so, the CO2 is displacing the O2. Never install VF in a sunken firebox or with a glass enclosure that has a raised riser more than about an inch. You have to burn it with the doors open anyway. Burning with glass doors closed make all sorts of nasty stuff noted above plus CO and CO2. The heat will shatter the 500F rated tempered glass doors. Few ever get ceramic doors for open hearths.

Forklifts and Zamboni's are notorious for CO incidents. My old fav. HVAC supply house usually ran about 150 ppm CO at the counter any time of the day.

JakeCK

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1809028#Comment_1809028

Why I normally use the electric forklift at work. Both our proPAIN and electric are brand new, both work great, and the propane is much smoother in its operation but the smell after a while annoys me. Also changing tanks can be a pita sometimes. Especially if its raining or cold out.