Replacing old radiator with smaller one

RadiatorFan

I want to replace an old 38" 14 section Crane radiator with a smaller, new one. I have a two pipe steam system in a 95 year old condo building. The existing rad is oversized, based on heat loss calculation done after renovations to room/windows, and the sheer amount of heat it has always put out. (I think most of the radiators in the building are oversized, which makes sense after reading Don Holohan's story on the connection between steam heat and the Spanish flu, but I digress.)

The new radiator will go in the same location as the existing radiator, but will not be as long. The dimensions of the radiator are very close to the original. But, because the new radiator has fewer sections (length going from 40 inches to 21 inches), the pipe from the radiator to the return pipe has to be extended. My heating/boiler pro said I need a straight steam trap, like this one.

Will adding additional pipe connected to a straight steam trap change the angle of the return pipe so it's not pitched right to let the steam flow out properly? The return pipe goes into the floor and I'm not sure there is much give in the return pipe, and won't know till the radiator is disconnected.

Also, what kind of supply valve do I need? (Straight? Angle?) Supply pipe is 1" and return is 1/2". Supply is on top left, return on bottom right.

Radiator has to be taken apart for removal, and company says they'll use a Porta Power tool to push it apart. Based on the kind of radiator I have, is that do-able?

Pictures follow. Thank so much for any help!

Crane Radiator.JPG

Top view 14 sections.jpeg

Front view.jpg

Return and Steam Trap.JPG

Return and Steam Trap another angle.jpeg

Existing Supply Valve.jpeg

Supply Valve top view.jpeg

bburd

Why not just put a thermostatic radiator valve on the supply pipe? Use the kind with a remote sensor and knob to get it away from the outside wall and the radiator enclosure. It will keep the room from overheating without the expense of changing the radiator.

ChicagoCooperator

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1806557#Comment_1806557

This sounds like the best plan to me (shoot, just adjust the valve you have as long as it doesn't leak). Or are you trying to get a bit more space and better appearance?

RadiatorFan

Thanks for your feedback! First, the valve does leak and the radiator is covered with lots of chipping lead paint. Getting it refurbished (removed from second floor, sandblasted, painted, re-installed, tested for leaks) is almost as expensive and risky because it is so old and might be rusted. Finding pros to take on that project is pretty hard in my area. Second, a new radiator will take up less space and look better, which are both good things.

I've refurbished three other much smaller rads, and would like to save this one, but sadly, the cons outweigh the pros.

Any thoughts on what supply valve I need (like the one below?), and on whether this can be disassembled? I really appreciate the help!

mattmia2

If that radiator doesn't have threaded rods that go from end to end to hold it together(I don't see any but there aren't great pictures of the ends), it is held together with left-right threaded nipples that were screwed in with a long spanner from the tappings in the ends. The sections won't just push apart with a wedge although something may eventually break if you put enough force on it. Scraping off the chippign paint and refinishing it with a direct to metal paint is an option, especially if you keep the covers. I would put an orifice plate in the inlet to reduce the output and/or cover part of the radiator inside the enclosure.

Keep in mind if it is controlled on/off with other oversized emitters that the control will run shorter cycles than you would need to heat the space with an emitter just sized to match the heat loss.

Jamie Hall

I agree with @mattmia2 — I don't see tension rods. If there aren't any, and your man doesn't have the required outside spanner, it's not coming apart, probably not even with a PortaPower tool. You may need to resort to an angle grinder to cut it up — but be aware that that is "hot work" and not for the faint of heart.

That existing valve is completely repairable. How much of it you have to take apart to stop it from leaking depends on where it is leaking from — it's most likely the packing. An hour or two would probably do if so.

Assuming that you do decide to proceed with demolition — rather than just downrating the radiator with the existing valve (don't try putting a new one on — that will need a matching spud in the radiator… which is no fun at all) — you can use a straight trap as you have shown, but be absolutely certain that ample drop from outlet of the trap to the elbow to the return. That distance I'd want at least a half inch and preferably and inch.

If it were mine, I'd repair the valve, clean the radiator of as much paint as I could in place, repaint it with a quality acrylic, maybe create a nice enclosure for it, and stop…

RadiatorFan

Oh gosh.

Do these pictures of sides help to tell you whether it has tension rods? What angle do you need to see?

Not sure I can find someone to clean, scrape and paint this in place safely because of the lead paint. It is 6 columns and so close to the wall.

Side View at Bottom on Supply Side.jpg

Supply Valve top view.jpeg

Side View From Top Supply Valve.jpg

Side View at Top Steam Trap Side.jpg

Side View at Steam Trap.jpg

mattmia2

I don't see tension rods, it looks like it is a left-right nipple rather than a push nipple design.

You would see the ends of the rods like this and unless they are on a part we can't see, they aren't there:

jblum

The radiator was oversized so the apartment could be heated at night with open windows. This is what they did in the years after the Spanish Flu epidemic.

jblum

In the office I rent, I had similarly oversized radiators. My DIY solution was to wrap the front, sides and top of the radiator with foil duct insulation.

RadiatorFan

The foil duct insulation is an interesting idea - did you do that for the purpose of reducing heat output or to cover the lead paint (or both)? How is it working?

I am still working on this issue, but am leaning toward Jamie Hall's solution for this heating season. Then maybe next season, I can find a someone who will remove, sandblast, paint, re-install, etc. Anyone know of such a contractor near south-central Ohio?

Thanks all, for your help!