swapping two radiators

jwalker

I have two radiators that I want swapped between two rooms. The larger radiator is in the smaller room and vice versa. The difficulty is that one has a 1" fitting, and the other has a 1.25" fitting. So, my plan is to hire somebody to do the work of changing the fittings. It would seem straightforward, but I'm curious to know: what are the potential pitfalls? E.g. is it possible that the fittings can't be changed because 1) you can't adapt one size fitting to another, or 2) they've bonded so strongly that the radiator is at risk of damage when trying to remove them?

(The last photo below is the other side of the valve in the first photo.)

Jamie Hall

It sounds so easy…

You will have to get the spuds out of the radiators, and the bushing out of the 1 inch one to go into the other one… and there is a remote chance that you or your person might get lucky. You might win the lottery, too.

And no, there is no way to adapt the radiator spud from one to the valve on the other — the spud and the valve are matched pairs, and must be kept together.

Can you get at those riser pipes from below? It might be much easier to change the riser pipes as well, if you can get at them?

EBEBRATT-Ed

It's a piece of cake for someone that knows what they are doing. Worst case is to get them to line up the rads may have to be raised but I my opinion going from 1" to 1 1/4 or vice versa is pretty easy.

Steamhead

Are you sure the larger rad will work properly on the smaller pipe?

DCContrarian

I would take the valve off the pipe and move it with the radiator. Same thing with the elbow union on the other end. The pipe dope on the valves looks fresh, they should come off on problem. As Jamie says, the unions come as sets, they have to stay together, and getting the piece out of the radiator is going to be harder or perhaps impossible.

Attaching the 1" pipe to the 1-1/4" fittings is going to be straightforward, just use a reducing bushing. Attaching the 1-1/4" pipe to the 1" fittings is going to be a bit of a challenge. The fittings you need are a reducing coupling and a short nipple. The issue is those two fittings will lengthen the pipe by a couple of inches. There might be enough play in the pipe for that, but likely not, which means shortening the pipe. That probably means taking a piece of the pipe out, cutting it and rethreading it, and putting it back in. If everything goes well that's not too bad of a job, a decent hardware store or even Home Depot will have a threading machine and will rethread that pipe for a couple of bucks in maybe ten minutes.

The risk you'll face is that whenever you go to take old iron pipe apart you never know if it's going to come apart, or if it's going to break. It could be rusted on the inside and snap off when you put a wrench on it.

Also — makes sure the radiators are the same width before you start!

DanHolohan

What Steamhead said. You sure? There’s a reason the pipes are the size they are.

DCContrarian

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1802718#Comment_1802718

But that reason may be that when the system was installed in 19-oh-something it relied on gravity to circulate the water. With a circulator system 1" pipe is pretty big, that might serve an entire house.

But I agree with the basic premise that if you're looking to even out heat distribution there are easier ways than moving radiators around.

JUGHNE

I believe this is a single pipe steam system…….

markdelzell

did anyone ask if it was hot water or steam?

If hot water does it have a pump?

Clean the white paint off of the small radiator, you’ll get twice as much heat out of it.

JUGHNE

I assume steam because there are no questions about the other end of the rad.

Hot water return or 2 pipe steam trap not mentioned.

EdTheHeaterMan

Might it be easier to move the wall to make the smaller room a little bigger, and the bigger room a little smaller?

Sometimes construction is easier than steam fitting.

markdelzell

I tell people that have a too large steam radiator to put a blanket or wood cover over it.

dabrakeman

What is the EDR of the bigger radiator?

Lance

J. Walker, I do this work all the time. First let's examine why the change. If it is based on proper sizing requirements than ok. If not, then you must be satisfied with it or be ready to change if the results are worse.

Any good heating plumber can handle this easily. Just make sure there is access, and the rules of physics are not violated. Radiators are tough, they can handle a lot of abuse, but talent never abuses the work, they make it look easy. The only pitfall here is the same for anything, something could go wrong. The way to minimize the wrong his to get the right person to do the work. So above or below or in the floor the work may need to change, the radiator can easily be made to accommodate a change, the change may look the same or it will be different. It all depends on the situation. Change floor height or pipe height or model of ftgs. Repipe or the same depends on the change. If I am unqualified or inexperienced I would not attempt the work unless I was prepared to face the consequences. I would definitely only hire an experienced person to handle change. Its not the same as building it new the first time. I have taken push nippled radiator sections apart with a pick and pry bar to remove cracked sections and reassemble with all thread rods. Just takes time. Good luck.

jwalker

Thanks folks for the comments. Sorry to get back late. I was busy the rest of the week.

Yes, this is one-pipe steam.

As a general response to the question of why mess with things, this is an old building that has been reconfigured such that we're not changing some pristine, well-designed steam install. (For example, the system is also pushing very wet steam through it, and multiple radiators gurgle when running. Given the cost of fixing that—I had it quoted— I'm just planning to wait for the boiler to die and then have the near-boiler piping done correctly.)

The two rooms used to be one larger one (with two radiators) that was comfortably heated. I had the calculation for the rooms at some point but can't find it now. That room's temp was OK. Now, we've had the room divided, but the locations of the radiators make it so that the smaller room is very overheated: 6-column radiator in about ~100 ft^2.

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1802708#Comment_1802708

I should have said that the 6-column radiator is on the 1" pipe, while the 4-column radiator is on the 1 1/4" pipe. You can see in the photo below the indentations from when there used to be a bigger radiator on that 1 1/4" pipe.

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1802870#Comment_1802870

If I do the calculation from tLAoSH, then it's about 27 (32" height, 3-column, 6 sections).

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1802711#Comment_1802711

The risers aren't accessible for at least the 1 1/4"; it's coming off a junction in the wall somewhere. The other riser you can maybe reach, but it's in a tight space. I was hoping that the spuds could be changed, but if moving the valve is a better option, then so be it. Putting the radiator on blocks so it matches a higher valve seems much easier, and less destructive, than changing a pipe that's hidden a wall.

And yes, the pipe dope is fresh, about 2 years old. When I first obtained this property, several valves were leaking and needed changing—as you can see from the rotted floorboards above.

I had this work quoted in the winter, and I'm considering who to hire to do it. I also plan to have my radiators hauled out, sandblasted, and powder coated at some point. The guy who does that also changes valves. So, I was thinking about whether to hire the heating pros in whom I have some faith (they're on this website) to first have the radiators switched and then have them painted. Or, whether I could hire the second guy to have it done in one fell swoop.