Water Hammer/Gurgling HELP

WaterHammerTime

Hi,

New member here. I live in a old home circa 1890 with steam heat. I have lived in the house for 5 year now and the steam heating has worked well. We are now having the kitchen and dining room re done which required the re-routing of some steam pipe and removal of a large radiator. The plumber re-routed some of the main piping in the basement and the piping leading up to two radiators on the second floor. Now in my wife and my bedroom there is really bad water hammering and gurgling noises in the radiator when the heat comes on. My daughters room which her radiator shares the same pipe work get the hammering noise as well but not the gurgling. My contractor has has three plumbers look at the piping and no one is able to fix the issue. It is hard for me to explain how the plumbing changed but basically it used to go through wall (that has since been taking down) and to a tee in the main in the basement. Now the pipe is diverted and down to the basement. It seems like the pitch was all ok in the piping. I am a fairly hands on guy can think I can fix the issue myself with the right direction.

ethicalpaul

With steam, the pitch of the pipe matters. After the steam condenses to water, the water must be able to run back down the pipe all the way to the boiler (for one pipe systems which I assume you have).

Plumbers don't realize this today and so they introduce incorrect pitch for renovation work all the time.

If you ask your plumber where in his new piping that water can collect, and if he's honest, he will show you and fix it.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@WaterHammerTime

Why should you fix it? You paid the plumber to fix it he is supposed to be a professional. If he doesn't know what he is doing he shouldn't have taken on the job.

Post some pictures and we will tell you what is wrong. He may be a great lumber and knows all about water and gas and sinks and toilets and know NOTHING about steam.

He should fix it and eat the cost.

Or check 'find a contractor on this site" and post your location> Someone may have a recommendation. He may have fouled the boiler up with cutting oil as well and the boiler may need skimming.

KC_Jones

Agree with the above and will reiterate, pictures would help a lot here.

WaterHammerTime

The pitch seemed ok with the run through the first floor, he did something really funky in the basement with the pipes where I think the problem is. I will take photos. Yea the plumber and to contractor are really sucking this up on trying to fix it. My wife is 7 months pregnant and we get a nice reminder at midnight and 4 am when the heat comes on that something is wrong. At this point I am desperate to fix it, and I will do it myself if I have to. I am wondering if some pipe sealant/metal shavings/cutting oil like you said fowled something up.

ethicalpaul

That's great that he's working with you. The folks here will be able to help point out the issue, I'm confident

WaterHammerTime

Could he have done something to cause water to rush to the radiators and then sit in them? Weeks ago most of the radiators were spitting water out of the air valves (which they never did before). That is not happening any more now.. now just the banging and gurgling in the radiator in our bedroom. Is it possible there is water sitting trapped in the bottom of that radiator and when the heat comes on the steam is hitting it causing the banging and gurgling?

KC_Jones

WaterHammerTime said:

Could he have done something to cause water to rush to the radiators and then sit in them? Weeks ago most of the radiators were spitting water out of the air valves (which they never did before). That is not happening any more now.. now just the banging and gurgling in the radiator in our bedroom. Is it possible there is water sitting trapped in the bottom of that radiator and when the heat comes on the steam is hitting it causing the banging and gurgling?

Water can only be trapped in a radiator if the radiator is sloped the wrong way, or the valve is almost completely closed.

WaterHammerTime

KC_Jones said:

WaterHammerTime said:

Could he have done something to cause water to rush to the radiators and then sit in them? Weeks ago most of the radiators were spitting water out of the air valves (which they never did before). That is not happening any more now.. now just the banging and gurgling in the radiator in our bedroom. Is it possible there is water sitting trapped in the bottom of that radiator and when the heat comes on the steam is hitting it causing the banging and gurgling?

Water can only be trapped in a radiator if the radiator is sloped the wrong way, or the valve is almost completely closed.

Ok, interesting thought with the valve. The valve was bad and I had replaced it a few weeks ago myself. With the bad valve closed steam was still hissing out, I wonder if it was leaking past a bad rubber seal and leaving water in the radiator.. going to look at that.

KC_Jones

WaterHammerTime said:

KC_Jones said:

WaterHammerTime said:

Could he have done something to cause water to rush to the radiators and then sit in them? Weeks ago most of the radiators were spitting water out of the air valves (which they never did before). That is not happening any more now.. now just the banging and gurgling in the radiator in our bedroom. Is it possible there is water sitting trapped in the bottom of that radiator and when the heat comes on the steam is hitting it causing the banging and gurgling?

Water can only be trapped in a radiator if the radiator is sloped the wrong way, or the valve is almost completely closed.

Ok, interesting thought with the valve. The valve was bad and I had replaced it a few weeks ago myself. With the bad valve closed steam was still hissing out, I wonder if it was leaking past a bad rubber seal and leaving water in the radiator.. going to look at that.

The valves tend not to close well against steam, and they should be left fully open at all times on one pipe steam systems. The valve will close on water, but not steam, so it basically acts like a check valve of sorts and could fill with water.

WaterHammerTime

KC_Jones said:

WaterHammerTime said:

KC_Jones said:

WaterHammerTime said:

Could he have done something to cause water to rush to the radiators and then sit in them? Weeks ago most of the radiators were spitting water out of the air valves (which they never did before). That is not happening any more now.. now just the banging and gurgling in the radiator in our bedroom. Is it possible there is water sitting trapped in the bottom of that radiator and when the heat comes on the steam is hitting it causing the banging and gurgling?

Water can only be trapped in a radiator if the radiator is sloped the wrong way, or the valve is almost completely closed.

Ok, interesting thought with the valve. The valve was bad and I had replaced it a few weeks ago myself. With the bad valve closed steam was still hissing out, I wonder if it was leaking past a bad rubber seal and leaving water in the radiator.. going to look at that.

The valves tend not to close well against steam, and they should be left fully open at all times on one pipe steam systems. The valve will close on water, but not steam, so it basically acts like a check valve of sorts and could fill with water.

Interesting. Did not know that. I have the valve closed in a guest room. So I guess that's not a great idea then? I keep it closed when the room is not being used..

KC_Jones

WaterHammerTime said:

KC_Jones said:

WaterHammerTime said:

KC_Jones said:

WaterHammerTime said:

Could he have done something to cause water to rush to the radiators and then sit in them? Weeks ago most of the radiators were spitting water out of the air valves (which they never did before). That is not happening any more now.. now just the banging and gurgling in the radiator in our bedroom. Is it possible there is water sitting trapped in the bottom of that radiator and when the heat comes on the steam is hitting it causing the banging and gurgling?

Water can only be trapped in a radiator if the radiator is sloped the wrong way, or the valve is almost completely closed.

Ok, interesting thought with the valve. The valve was bad and I had replaced it a few weeks ago myself. With the bad valve closed steam was still hissing out, I wonder if it was leaking past a bad rubber seal and leaving water in the radiator.. going to look at that.

The valves tend not to close well against steam, and they should be left fully open at all times on one pipe steam systems. The valve will close on water, but not steam, so it basically acts like a check valve of sorts and could fill with water.

Interesting. Did not know that. I have the valve closed in a guest room. So I guess that's not a great idea then? I keep it closed when the room is not being used..

It's not recommended as it can have unintended consequences like this. That said, if you truly don't want it to heat, turn the vent upside down and that will effectively shut it down, with no unintended consequences.

ethicalpaul

If it works it's fine, but be aware that the valve might not seal against the steam just as K.C. described. It depends on a lot of things...my system is always very very low pressure and my radiator valves all tend to work.

WaterHammerTime

I was not able to get photos last night, hopefully tonight. Last night I closed the valves on my daughters room and my bedroom (these radiators share the same plumbing, the pipes making all the noise) I was hoping it would quiet things down last night but unfortunately I could still hear banging down in the basement. Also with those valves closed It seemed move the gurgling to the radiator in my sons room which is piped a little further down in the system. Could I have an issue of Wet Steam? I wonder if I could try lowering the water level to help? Also, not sure if this is effecting anything but I have to boilers. I'm not sure why. It seems like over kill especially now that half the first floor had its radiators removed. And one of the boilers is not turning on when the heat kicks on. I think it always used to go on with the other one. Could this be causing any of my symptoms?

EBEBRATT-Ed

@WaterHammerTime

You're asking a lot of legit questions but without pictures no one can help. We don't have x ray vision. Start with pictures and get a level and check the pitch of your radiation and the pipes leading to it. Everything should pitch down away from the radiator.

WaterHammerTime

I know, photos will be a huge help. I will try to take a bunch later.

WaterHammerTime

Here are some photos of the pipe work. The piping circled in red is the new piping. The framed out and drywalled stairs are new and what made the pipe work to be re-routed in the basement. In the one photo you see two pipes running parallel to each other. The pipe on the left is the one the eventually leads up stairs to the two bed rooms where the banging and gurgling are the worst. I have be uneasy about the way the piping was done here since it was put in and have blamed it on the reason for the banging and gurgling. The plumber swears that they are pitched correct and is not the problem. I asked why wasn't it just plumbed to the main with a tee instead of running parallel with the main pipe. his answer was that he thought the piping through the first floor was going to be routed a different way so that is why the tee is where it is now.. I have asked many times if they could please remove the unnecessary piping and tee it right at that 90 elbow, but again he is telling me its not the problem. It is hard to tell from the photos and in real life whether is pitched enough. The Boilers are at the Southside of the house, the photos start from the boilers (south) the to the west, north, east sides of the house.

KC_Jones

Has this plumber that swears everything is right said anything about the incorrect boiler piping? That's almost certainly putting water into the mains, but let's keep looking beyond that.

What size are those pipe runs? How much EDR of radiation is it feeding? First the pipe size of that repiped main? Then, what size is that pipe that feeds the problematic radiators? Is that pipe run the same as the original feed pipe? Just give pipe OD and we will know the actual nominal pipe size.

Just to clarify, the upstairs radiators, were they always joined in the basement on a single connection, or did they originally have their own connection to the main? That part is a bit unclear to me based on your description.

With that much length of counterflow feeding those radiators, the pipe size could make a difference.

As far as pitch, the main that comes off the top, lets call it main extension, should be the highest point of that pipe run, and the opposite end with the vent and drop should be the lowest point. On the radiator feed, the elbow under where it goes upstairs should be the highest point, and should slope down from there. All slopes should be gradual and continuous, with no sagging.

I suspect, looking at the boiler piping, you may have always had an issue, and something the plumber did with the re-pipe has brought that issue to light. Now, that's not to say everything that was done was correct.

WaterHammerTime

KC_Jones said:

Has this plumber that swears everything is right said anything about the incorrect boiler piping? That's almost certainly putting water into the mains, but let's keep looking beyond that.

What size are those pipe runs? How much EDR of radiation is it feeding? First the pipe size of that repiped main? Then, what size is that pipe that feeds the problematic radiators? Is that pipe run the same as the original feed pipe? Just give pipe OD and we will know the actual nominal pipe size.

Just to clarify, the upstairs radiators, were they always joined in the basement on a single connection, or did they originally have their own connection to the main? That part is a bit unclear to me based on your description.

With that much length of counterflow feeding those radiators, the pipe size could make a difference.

As far as pitch, the main that comes off the top, lets call it main extension, should be the highest point of that pipe run, and the opposite end with the vent and drop should be the lowest point. On the radiator feed, the elbow under where it goes upstairs should be the highest point, and should slope down from there. All slopes should be gradual and continuous, with no sagging.

I suspect, looking at the boiler piping, you may have always had an issue, and something the plumber did with the re-pipe has brought that issue to light. Now, that's not to say everything that was done was correct.

Yes, The plumber told me the piping out of the boiler was incorrect. My thought was there was no issues before he did work so I was looking past that issue (for now). But perhaps like you said maybe something he did has exasperated an issue that was present all a long.

I am not sure how to tell you the ERD of Radiation, are you asking how many radiators the system is feeding?
The Nominal Pipe Sizes are:
Pipes right on top of boiler: (not 100%) sure but I think NPS 2
First Pipe in the Main: 3 NPS
Then down to: 2-1/2 NPS on the West side run of piping
Then to: 2 NPS where it stays that size for the rest of the main. (The plumber re-routed with 2 NPS as well.
Then it is 1-1/2 NPS up to the radiators but changes to 1-1/4 NPS to the radiator in my daughters room and 1 NPS to the radiator in my room. (as it was before).
The two radiators join close together under the floor (as they did before) then run to the basement via a single 1-1/2 NPS pipe. That pipe used to go basically straight down through a wall, short run horizontally in the basement and to a tee at the main. Now the piping goes about 2' horizontally one way then 90 elbow then 3.5' (ish) horizontally another way, then down the first floor wall, Then another 3' vertical run towards the main, but instead of going to the main right there at a tee it goes parallel with the main 6-8'(?) then a 90 elbow then another 90 elbow into a tee in the main. (have I lost you yet?) I will follow this post of a drawing of the pipework if I can manage to draw it. The piping does appear to make gradual slopes, its just seems like so much piping was added!

WaterHammerTime

Here are two drawings (X-Ray looking down at the floor) and two photos. Unfortunately drywall has gone up and these are the best photos I can provide. Can you can see before: Pipe running pretty much straight down and the new pipe.

KC_Jones

Based on everything you posted, I'm going to say the place to start is the fact that the feed for those radiators comes off the side of the main. The radiator take offs should never come off the side of the main like they did, it allows the water to get in there, and possibly be picked up by the steam. They should always be at a 45 off the top, or even 90 from the top, the side is a strict no no. This will exacerbate the problems with the boiler piping possibly putting excess water into the main. And honestly, if they are going to make that change, might as well connect it in the proper location, but that's just me. Horizontal pipe, for me, just adds potential problems.

Sorry I didn't see that before, but after your drawing I can see it now. This may be a process of elimination, and this may just be the starting point.

WaterHammerTime

KC_Jones said:

Based on everything you posted, I'm going to say the place to start is the fact that the feed for those radiators comes off the side of the main. The radiator take offs should never come off the side of the main like they did, it allows the water to get in there, and possibly be picked up by the steam. They should always be at a 45 off the top, or even 90 from the top, the side is a strict no no. This will exacerbate the problems with the boiler piping possibly putting excess water into the main. And honestly, if they are going to make that change, might as well connect it in the proper location, but that's just me. Horizontal pipe, for me, just adds potential problems.

Sorry I didn't see that before, but after your drawing I can see it now. This may be a process of elimination, and this may just be the starting point.

Ok yea, that makes sense. I have asked my contractor, to ask his plumber to put this too a tee right to the main for over a month now. Now I am going to have to press him harder to do it. All of the other feeds are at 45 degrees. And all of the excess piping even if it is pitched correctly drives me a little crazy. Here is another photo to show the tee.

KC_Jones

He's going to have to do something to get that up at 45 degrees, as just doing that will make the rest of the pipe slope incorrectly.

I don't know if that will fix the problem, but it definitely isn't helping at all. So at this point, it's something to take off the list.

Intplm.

Ok, so it was working fine before but not now? Because?

What is the pressure setting on the boiler?
With the incorrect near boiler piping shown in the pics that might be part of the problem, but first,
Set the boiler pressure all of the way down. It's possible that you might be creating more condensation than before and with the new piping?? Might be causing this. Your gage should read zero. Yes. Zero.
And, I suspect that the plumber might have raised the pressure on the boiler.

pedmec

Don't bother. if you don't correct the near boiler piping you will probably never be able to get rid of the noise and gurgling. It's not even remotely close to being correct. i know what your going to say. "it worked before". yeah you got lucky. We get that every once in a while. But now your incorrect piping is coming back to haunt you. As a contractor i would not touch your system until the boiler piping was corrected. You could do 100 things to try and remedy the situation and they all might never work because the most important part of the steam system is a massive failure. you need to start at the boilers. Most steam system problems can be traced back to the boiler. if you are gurgling its steam trying to get past the water that's in its way. where is that water coming from. The boiler.

Intplm.

@pedmec ...... Agreed but it's a small bit of effort to drop the pressure, could help in offering them some peace. So I would bother to do that to see how the system reacts and then correct the piping.

Jamie Hall

The side outlet and relatively flat pitch of that new pipe feeding those two radiators... not good.

KC_Jones

You mention that you don't know how to do EDR. If you would like help with that, I'd suggest you do a survey of the entire house and see if you actually need both of those boilers. You stated you removed a large radiator as part of the remodel, which potentially lowered the amount you need.

First, what heat source did you replace it with? That's mostly my curiosity. Second, that could have caused the existing boilers to be more over sized than they probably already were, and that, along with poor piping, can lead to amplifying problems that might not have presented themselves prior.

This is a system, and the instant anything is changed, what was happening before is pretty much out the window.

WaterHammerTime

pedmec said:

Don't bother. if you don't correct the near boiler piping you will probably never be able to get rid of the noise and gurgling. It's not even remotely close to being correct. i know what your going to say. "it worked before". yeah you got lucky. We get that every once in a while. But now your incorrect piping is coming back to haunt you. As a contractor i would not touch your system until the boiler piping was corrected. You could do 100 things to try and remedy the situation and they all might never work because the most important part of the steam system is a massive failure. you need to start at the boilers. Most steam system problems can be traced back to the boiler. if you are gurgling its steam trying to get past the water that's in its way. where is that water coming from. The boiler.

Yes it did work before pretty well also, and I now understand the piping at the boiler is incorrect and I will indeed have it fixed. But I am trying to get the banging and gurgling gone like it was before before I proceed with other fixes. Especially since they did work that I suspected was not correct and now have confirmation.

Intplm. said:

Ok, so it was working fine before but not now? Because?

What is the pressure setting on the boiler?
With the incorrect near boiler piping shown in the pics that might be part of the problem, but first,
Set the boiler pressure all of the way down. It's possible that you might be creating more condensation than before and with the new piping?? Might be causing this. Your gage should read zero. Yes. Zero.
And, I suspect that the plumber might have raised the pressure on the boiler.

Are these the Pressure gauges? They are at 2 psi. the one gauge the tab is bent down so it looks lower but I believe it is at 2 psi as well.

KC_Jones said:

You mention that you don't know how to do EDR. If you would like help with that, I'd suggest you do a survey of the entire house and see if you actually need both of those boilers. You stated you removed a large radiator as part of the remodel, which potentially lowered the amount you need.

First, what heat source did you replace it with? That's mostly my curiosity. Second, that could have caused the existing boilers to be more over sized than they probably already were, and that, along with poor piping, can lead to amplifying problems that might not have presented themselves prior.

This is a system, and the instant anything is changed, what was happening before is pretty much out the window.

Is EDR basically how many and what size radiators I have? I will describe how many radiators I have then if you need I can get into measuring them.
I live in a two and a half story house 2500 square foot. (Circa 1890 if that matters)

First floor: Has a living room that had two radiators (I removed one in 2020 because it has a pin hole from rust and was leaking) so as of 2020 down to one. A hallway with a radiator, then there used to be a pretty massive radiator in the dining room (now removed) and the kitchen had one but I took that out (2019) because that radiator was also leaking. The dining room and kitchen are new construction (ongoing) that now has a forced hot air/AC system feeding it (Side note they ran two ducts to the living room as well).

Then Second floor has four bedrooms and a bathroom all with one radiator in them.

Then a Third floor with two small rooms I call half rooms because the roof line slants down. Those have two radiators that I leave the valves shut off because the rooms are not used (they may be in the future)

Lastly I live in a hollow and there is an garage with an office under it. The office sits half a floor higher then my first floor of my house and there used to be a radiator in there, that piping has since been capped in the basement and not being feed any more.

But as far as the new construction and the new banging noises goes there is only the one massive radiator that has been recently removed. Maybe that was the straw that broke the camels back?

But yea I think at this point the two boilers are very unnecessary. Perhaps I should have just one plumbed (correctly) and leave the other one there as a back up? I have thought they where over kill since I moved in (2018).


I appreciate everyone's help and willing to have this fixed part by part with everyone's help and direction.

KC_Jones

If you want to go down the EDR path this is what is needed.
Height of each radiator from the floor.
Depth of each radiator.
Picture of the end of each radiator to identify style.
How many sections each radiator has.
If several radiators are the exact same style, height, and depth, then just need pics and measurements of one of them, and the count for the total number of sections.
Will also need a picture of the boiler nameplate to compare for sizing.

I'm going to speculate, based on what you posted, that not only do you only need one boiler, but even just the one is oversized for what is left.

It sounds like you are slowly eliminating the steam, and now using some forced air. That's going to make for some interesting control strategies so the systems don't fight each other. I'm always an advocate for 1 system, not sure if I've ever seen these dual system running simultaneously work out very well from a comfort perspective. Hopefully the contractors have that figured out.

I'd also suggest if you have radiation corroding out, you've had a water issue all along that no one has addressed in the history of the house. Remember steam should be 100% silent, need to feel radiators to know it's working, any noise is a cry for help.

Intplm.

@WaterHammerTime

The recent picture you posted is the boilers pressuretrol. Crank it down.
I can't tell from here how improperly pitched the pipes are. They seem level. Not a good piping practice for steam.
Because you mentioned earlier that you have some large pipe diameters? Im hoping the larger diameters help.
This MIGHT! help if they are pitched ever so slightly. It's very hard to tell from a picture how they are pitched. A little?
Crank it down all of the way on that pressure troll.

WaterHammerTime

KC_Jones said:

If you want to go down the EDR path this is what is needed.
Height of each radiator from the floor.
Depth of each radiator.
Picture of the end of each radiator to identify style.
How many sections each radiator has.
If several radiators are the exact same style, height, and depth, then just need pics and measurements of one of them, and the count for the total number of sections.
Will also need a picture of the boiler nameplate to compare for sizing.

I'm going to speculate, based on what you posted, that not only do you only need one boiler, but even just the one is oversized for what is left.

It sounds like you are slowly eliminating the steam, and now using some forced air. That's going to make for some interesting control strategies so the systems don't fight each other. I'm always an advocate for 1 system, not sure if I've ever seen these dual system running simultaneously work out very well from a comfort perspective. Hopefully the contractors have that figured out.

I'd also suggest if you have radiation corroding out, you've had a water issue all along that no one has addressed in the history of the house. Remember steam should be 100% silent, need to feel radiators to know it's working, any noise is a cry for help.

Ok, This weekend I will get some sizing of the radiators and a photo of the boiler nameplate.

I am not trying to eliminate steam TBH. I love the steam system and I enjoy the look and function of the radiators. I would have put radiators back in the dining an kitchen but I listened to the contractors recommendation and I am regretting having him put this HVAC unit in.. I do not think the two systems will fight each other for a few reasons that I am to lazy to type out at this point. but my main reasoning is that the thermostat is in the kitchen/dining room (open to each other) and I feel like that space will be a separate "zone". Where the steam thermostat (nest thermostat) is in the Living room with a sensor in my sons room so from 9PM-7AM the steam heat comes on and off based on his room temp. (this has work out well for us at this point.

The house was owned by one family for maybe 70 years or so then was a rental for maybe 4 years before I purchased it. The poor house has had some serious neglect in the past 10-20 years but my wife and I are slowly trying to bring her back to life. Hopefully I can sort out this steam system.

WaterHammerTime

Intplm. said:

@WaterHammerTime

The recent picture you posted is the boilers pressuretrol. Crank it down.
I can't tell from here how improperly pitched the pipes are. They seem level. Not a good piping practice for steam.
Because you mentioned earlier that you have some large pipe diameters? Im hoping the larger diameters help.
This MIGHT! help if they are pitched ever so slightly. It's very hard to tell from a picture how they are pitched. A little?
Crank it down all of the way on that pressure troll.

Can you give me some direction on how to lower the PSI on the controls?

Thanks

Waher

Can you give me some direction on how to lower the PSI on the controls?

Thanks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeRNeFgGo2k

WaterHammerTime

Waher said:

Can you give me some direction on how to lower the PSI on the controls?

Thanks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeRNeFgGo2k


Thank You! got some homework to do tonight.

WaterHammerTime

KC_Jones said:

If you want to go down the EDR path this is what is needed.
Height of each radiator from the floor.
Depth of each radiator.
Picture of the end of each radiator to identify style.
How many sections each radiator has.
If several radiators are the exact same style, height, and depth, then just need pics and measurements of one of them, and the count for the total number of sections.
Will also need a picture of the boiler nameplate to compare for sizing.

I'm going to speculate, based on what you posted, that not only do you only need one boiler, but even just the one is oversized for what is left.

It sounds like you are slowly eliminating the steam, and now using some forced air. That's going to make for some interesting control strategies so the systems don't fight each other. I'm always an advocate for 1 system, not sure if I've ever seen these dual system running simultaneously work out very well from a comfort perspective. Hopefully the contractors have that figured out.

I'd also suggest if you have radiation corroding out, you've had a water issue all along that no one has addressed in the history of the house. Remember steam should be 100% silent, need to feel radiators to know it's working, any noise is a cry for help.

I found a sheet online showing the different styles of radiators and how to measure them for ERD. will work on that this weekend and will report back with the photo of the boiler plate.

WaterHammerTime

If my calculations are correct my radiators amount to 236.27 square feet EDR. So based on my boilers it looks like even one boiler is to big, let alone the both of them.. could I shut power off to one of the boilers for now or is that going to complicate things? Also the sticker on the boiler is listing two models? Not sure which one it is?

KC_Jones

You’d need to repipe the boilers to shut one down effectively, others may be along with an opinion on that.

Do you know the age of the current boilers? If they are old enough it might make more sense to just replace with properly sized boiler in the spring. And to be clear, that would be just about the smallest one made. I’m reasonably sure what you have has always been wrong even when all the radiators were connected.

WaterHammerTime

KC_Jones said:

You’d need to repipe the boilers to shut one down effectively, others may be along with an opinion on that.

Do you know the age of the current boilers? If they are old enough it might make more sense to just replace with properly sized boiler in the spring. And to be clear, that would be just about the smallest one made. I’m reasonably sure what you have has always been wrong even when all the radiators were connected.

I am not sure or the age, I have been in the house for 5 years.. so at least that old. The water heater has a date of 2013 written on it. Possibly they were replaced at the same time. Would like to work with the boiler(s) I have now but I guess open to any opinions/options. I would like to put a gas boiler in since I have natural gas to the house anyway. Current boilers rub on oil. 

Edit: the previous renter of the house spoke of some kind of antique oil consuming monster that was in the house when he was there maybe 2016ish. So maybe the boilers are circa 2017/18.

KC_Jones

If the boiler is that new, I’d look into removing one entirely, correcting the piping, and having a gas gun installed in that boiler, as long as the manufacturer approves of that conversion. That will require a knowledgeable contractor to swap the burner and tune it with a combustion analyzer. Or just keep the oil. I’d look into the repipe either way, it liable to be the only way to fix the problem completely.

WaterHammerTime

KC_Jones said:

If the boiler is that new, I’d look into removing one entirely, correcting the piping, and having a gas gun installed in that boiler, as long as the manufacturer approves of that conversion. That will require a knowledgeable contractor to swap the burner and tune it with a combustion analyzer. Or just keep the oil. I’d look into the repipe either way, it liable to be the only way to fix the problem completely.

Yea I think that is the way I would like to go. Just turning down the psi has seemed to help a lot TBH. Tonight will be the real test because that is when we have been woken up by water hammering in the middle of the night. 

EDIT : I though that just turning down the psi would have helped but the banging continued last night :(