Limited options for a toilet waste pipe in concrete

gotgas

We are wrapping up some work on a house and installing the toilets. We had not really looked at it much since the plumber left after the concrete was set. These are slab on grade Construction so the sub slab Plumbing is long since set.

What we thought was the top of a 3-in pipe for the toilet drain was actually the top of a wye. It goes down to the left under the slab with the vent pulled off of it to the right.

The flared end of the wye goes from about a quarter of an inch into the concrete to an inch and a half over it. On top of the concrete is a half inch of Pergo engineered flooring. That means the end of the wye is 3/4 of an inch above the flooring.

That end was cut off so that it is flush with the flooring. That means we only have about 3/4 of an inch to glue to. It turns right after that because of what it is. Even with that 3/4 of an inch the flange is sitting up high because the bevel on the underside of the flange is hitting that fitting.

It is too high in holding the toilet up and there is really not enough to glue to. We need to cut another quarter inch off of that but that only leaves a half inch that we could glue to. Any ideas that do not involve removing the floor and cutting the concrete in a finished house?

Jamie Hall

What were they thinking? Other than setting the... un, throne... on a raised platform to better survey the occupants domain, I can't think of anything...

MikeAmann

Then you cut the part of the flange that fits inside the elbow down also.

gotgas

MikeAmann said:

Then you cut the part of the flange that fits inside the elbow down also.

I cannot tell if you are being serious or funny. I am going to assume serious and attach this picture:

We cut it way down, but it still hits too high because the bevel by the thumb in that picture hits the top of the pipe.

This causes the flange to sit too high, and the toilet is 3/16" off the floor. If I cut 1/4" more off the top of the wye, the toilet will sit in the floor, but there will only be 1/2" of connection when we glue it. That seems like to little.

gotgas

Jamie Hall said:

What were they thinking?

I wish I knew. It is baffling and frustrating.  I would tell the plumber to come back and fix it, but he retired!

We are really trying to avoid the platform.it would not work for the space, and the buyer uses a walker and cannot have any elevation changes.

Mad Dog_2

A Real, genuine, seasoned plumber did that?  Geez!  Hack...gives the trade a bad name.   Mad Dog 🐕 

Mad Dog_2

He SHOULD retire if he's installing shabby work like that...Mad Dog 🐕 

hot_rod

there are flanges made to glue inside 3  or 4” that are flush  on the bottom, no bump out. That will help pick up some

MikeAmann

gotgas said:

MikeAmann said:

Then you cut the part of the flange that fits inside the elbow down also.

I cannot tell if you are being serious or funny. I am going to assume serious and attach this picture:

We cut it way down, but it still hits too high because the bevel by the thumb in that picture hits the top of the pipe.

This causes the flange to sit too high, and the toilet is 3/16" off the floor. If I cut 1/4" more off the top of the wye, the toilet will sit in the floor, but there will only be 1/2" of connection when we glue it. That seems like to little.

No, I was serious. Ok, you already did that. And you can't do a platform.
Can you cut a spacer using the base of the toilet as a template?
Then it would only raise the toilet by that thickness.

Once you figure out a solution, then if it were me, I would not permanently glue that connection.
I would try to use some type of silicone so there would be a chance of removal down the road without cutting everything out. I had to do something similar in my own house.

hot_rod

glue a piece of 3” pipe in the cut down hub
Cut it flush with the floor 

run some 1/4 threaded brass rod into the concrete with anchor adhesive, Hilti for example 

This way the anchor bolts not the flange pulls the bowl down tight to the floor 

No need to have the flange take any force. This flange  won’t take the no seep bowl wax. Use a standard wax ring. Or the foam rubber ones from Fluidmaster

Larry Weingarten

Hi, If you cut a piece of 3/4" plywood to match the base of the toilet, would that rise be acceptable to the owner? How about two pieces for a 1.5" rise? 🤔
Yours, Larry

Mad Dog_2

Larry. Plywood is not up to code...rots..At this point...

1) With a small Carbide hammer drill...drill down 4-5"s around pipe.

2) make enough room to get a floor flange with full socket depth.

3) Build up with a Marble or Granite slab to accommodate...2-3" max

4) Glue down flange. Bolt down.

5) Reset the bowl...done..

They'll get used to it. ..Move on.. mad Dog 🐕 

realliveplumber

"I would try to use some type of silicone so there would be a chance of removal down the road without cutting everything out. I had to do something similar in my own house."



Bad idea. If the drain ever stopped up it would be a leaking mess.

They make "Azek" (cellular pvc) in 4x8 sheets. That could be used to make a spacer.

Or a counter top manufacturer.

But if you had a half decent service plumber, who has a variety of closet flanges, that job would be done in less than an hour.

Of course that's probably a tee on its back..........

PC7060

What @hot_rod said.

gotgas

Thanks for all the replies. I should mention, house is already sold, closing Friday. They will not accept any platform at all. In another area of the house, we had a 1" change from garage to main residence, they required us to build a ramp for the 1" change.

What about something like this?

realliveplumber said:

But if you had a half decent service plumber, who has a variety of closet flanges, that job would be done in less than an hour.

Of course that's probably a tee on its back..........

Man, I never even thought about that. I think it is a combo wye. It looks longer than a tee from the top. I will double-check tomorrow to be sure. I sure hope he would not have done that. If he did, we really are in trouble.

No way we can get anyone by Friday. assuming it is a combo wye, can you recommend a closet flange that would work?

My other option is to pull up the finished floor in the bath, remove the vanity and trim, and hammer through the slab. We could replace the combo wye with a standard wye and and a one of these.

MikeAmann

@gotgas
I looked at the links you provided and found this: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Jones-Stephens/5013368833

• Durable cast iron construction
  
• Easily pushes into 4 inch cast iron or schedule 40 DWV pipe with no tear out or caulking required of existing pipe
  
• 7 inch outer diameter x 4 inch height
  
• For areas without the bend close to the flange or broken pipe
  
• Fits 4 inch pipe
  
• ASTM C-564 rubber gasket and double-lip seal gasket
  
• Flush fit and will fit oblong horns
  
• Push-in connection that's easy to install or adjust
  
• May be used on PVC, ABS, or Cast Iron pipe and on old lead pipe that is in good condition
  

C47420 seems to be a very short version 4" x 2" for areas with the bend close to the flange.

MikeAmann

Here is another option: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Jones-Stephens/5013368841

Push over cast iron or plastic pipe, anchor to the floor and tighten the bolts.

Mad Dog_2

I understand your conundrum, but I feel for the new, unsuspecting homeowner. All because the plumber didn't rough it  in right.  Brand new work, getting MacGyvered
And Band Aids.  If I were you, just be  honest with the New buyers:  "Look, we need a few more days to correct this. We want to hand over the house with a clear conscience.'

Chop it out and do it right. Its a days work.
Don't Half-A-- it.  Mad Dog 🐕 

gotgas

Mad Dog_2 said:

I understand your conundrum, but I feel for the new, unsuspecting homeowner...We want to hand over the house with a clear conscience.'

Chop it out and do it right. Its a days work.
Don't Half-A-- it.  Mad Dog 🐕 

Agreed and agreed. What a hassle. I don't know how this passed inspection or we did not notice until now. Real bummer.

Intplm.

There are PVC flanges that are street flanged. ie. male not female as you have pictured.
They also make them without that tapered bevel type casting style that you have pictured.
Ask for a PVC street closet flange that does not have that tapered casting just below the metal of the flange.
Get that fitting at your supply house and you should be able to cut it to fit.
Otherwise you will need to cut the floor and repipe or raise the floor.
Me? I would get the street flange.

See the pictured street closet flange above.

I believe sue chief makes one. There are other companies that offer them too.

gotgas

For those of you who helpfully commented on this, I never did a follow-up. We were able to use a long flange like the one pictured in the last comment, and then cut it down to fit with the wye. We worked on it for hours getting it right and tested it many many times and it seemed to work really well. We have committed to come back and cut it out if anything fails with it in the next year or two.

It was not our favorite choice but it was the only choice that was possible. We would have preferred to cut out the whole section of concrete but we would have meant removing interior walls and we still probably would not have got the right drop on the waist pipe. If we had pulled out the wye, anything else we installed would have pushed the pipe down and would have affected the drop. It was already right at a quarter inch per foot.

The buyers are happy with the outcome and we are committed to supporting them. On the second house the same plumber roughed in, we have already gone through all of this to be sure it will work. Everything in the second house seems up to par. 

...except for one showerP-trap that was completely disconnected so the water was pouring into the sand under the house. After the first debacle we tested each individual drain including all three sinks, the toilets, the showers, and the washing machine drain. We opened the main line that goes into the street and put water through each one to make sure we would see it coming through. They were all fine except one shower never sent any water through the main line no matter how much we put through it. Turns out the P-trap was not connected. Glad we forgot before we did the finish painting on the walls.

Thanks again for your help on this.

Intplm.

@gotgas

Nice to see that things worked out.
If the pipe and fitting was primed and glued properly, you will most likely never have to go back.

You say a wye was used under the toilet. A wye is not required to drain a toilet. You can and should use a 90 deg. elbow or T.Y. (sanitary tee.). This would have given you the room and the pitch to get this done.
But since this was done in concrete I believe you did the best you could under the circumstances.

Again nice that things worked out