Prestige Solo 110 boiler. Is there a way to switch modulation off and on?

cooper185

Is there a way to place some kind of switching mechanism into the wiring of the outdoor temperature sensor that would send a fake 0°F temperature to the boiler? That way you could have full heat on cold 45°F mornings rather than a lower modulated heat. Without such a switch to mask the outside temperature, you'd have to repeatedly change the modulation parameters for high heat on demand, and then redo the settings back to the more efficient modulated heat.

kcopp

I suppose there are a few things you could do. But why?
45F in the morning is not that cold for the winter.
Are you doing a large set back of indoor temps?
More info about the system would help...

Daveinscranton

Yes.  A dpdt (double pole, double throw) switch would do it.  Center connectors to the boiler.  One set of contacts to the real ODR, one set to the resistance equivalent to your desired temperature.  Or a linear taper potentiometer if you wish adjustment.  

cooper185

kcopp, and Daveinscranton
A jacket inside is fine for me but not for my wife. Even with low outside temps in the 30's, all 5 zones are warm, but never hot, and oftentimes it doesn't feel warm nside. For example, the fan's temperature sensor in the kickspace heater under a kitchen cabinet doesn't get hot enough to turn on automatically, but I can turn it on manually. The outside temperature sensor setting is 0°F for the boiler to fire at maximum firing temperature, and when outside temps get frigid, the circulating zone water does get hot. I manually setback my (dumb) thermostats to 65°F each night.
I like the dpdt/pot solution, thank you.

GGross

nevermind I misread the part where you are setting a deep setback overnight

cooper185

That's a viable solution, but I was thinking of short duration 'on demand' heating, when my modulating boiler would have decreased efficiency for only a short period of time.

cooper185

Originally, I was thinking of a attaching a small (outside) peltier plate to the ambient temperature sensor, but the dpdt idea sounds cheaper, and doesn't necessitate a ladder. I just have to figure the resistance value of that ambient sensor at 0°F. And I don't want to have to use an amp meter on a ladder at or around 0°!!!

Daveinscranton

If you are trying to mount your switch some distance from your boiler, like next to your thermostat, you can get it down to 3 conductors and spdt if you need to.  Assuming you have 3 spare conductors available.

Pretty easy to graph the curve of the ODR vs temp.  Room temp, refrigerator temp, outside temperature, freezer temperature.  Gives you four temps to plot vs ohms.  If you want to get fancy, you can add appropriate fixed resistance to your linear taper potentiometer so that it falls neatly into to factory ODR extremes.  Not necessary.  Can add a $10 timer and a button on the wall to add “hit once and forget “ for X number of minutes of high heat.  

Depends on how we manage to amuse ourselves, I think.  If you do any of this, write it down, and why.  It will be confusing in a few years, without notes.

Zman

If you either change out the snap disk to a lower rating or put an adjustable aquastat on the kickspace heater, you can get it to turn the fan on at a lower setting.
Another option would be to utilize the CH2 call for heat on the boiler and set it up with a more aggressive outdoor reset (or none at all). You could then use a double-throw/double pole switch (a 4-way light switch would work) to toggle between the CH1 and CH2. If the boiler is controlling the system circ, it would be a bit more complicated...

cooper185

Zman, I've put a different lower temp snap disk on that kickspace heater's 1/4" pipe years ago and rewired it for manual operation. Thanks for your suggestion.

hot_rod

Does it have a boost function that you could set aggressively 

Daveinscranton

You can turn off your boiler.

Disconnect your ODR.

Measure the resistance.  Do this at different temperatures over a few days.  Plot the curve.

This assumes it is a royal pain to get to the ODR. (Ladder).

You may be able to look up the ODR parameters.  The manufacturer may publish it.

My boiler tells you the outside temperature on the boiler information flat screen display.  It interpolates for you.  My ODR is a negative correlation device.  Resistance goes down as temp goes up.

Fun project.  Make it do what you want.  

cooper185

Bob Rohr, The kickspace fan has a high and low speed setting.

GGross

if you have the newer style prestige control (CTRLMAX) then I think Zmans suggestion makes the most sense. you could wire up a separate thermostat to CH2 and make it fire at a setpoint temperature, turn it off when you want to go back to standard heating curve

cooper185

Daveinscranton said:

You can turn off your boiler.

Disconnect your ODR.

Measure the resistance.  Do this at different temperatures over a few days.  Plot the curve.

This assumes it is a royal pain to get to the ODR. (Ladder).

You may be able to look up the ODR parameters.  The manufacturer may publish it.

My boiler tells you the outside temperature on the boiler information flat screen display.  It interpolates for you.  My ODR is a negative correlation device.  Resistance goes down as temp goes up.

Fun project.  Make it do what you want.  

Nice! Thank you! I always overthink, with little common sense. I can get a current temp reading on the Solo 110. The temp sensor is high near the peak ridge under an overhang for shelter. Needs an extension ladder.

cooper185

GGross said:

if you have the newer style prestige control (CTRLMAX) then I think Zmans suggestion makes the most sense. you could wire up a separate thermostat to CH2 and make it fire at a setpoint temperature, turn it off when you want to go back to standard heating curve

The boiler is older. I did a DIY replacement of my 40 yr. old forced air furnace in 2008. That was an expensive learning curve. Bought all the components (with a couple home improvement loans, gradually over months time. I wasn't aware that some water was present from Triangle Tube pressure testing. I had to drag my Smart 60 indirect fired water 'heater' back up the basement stairs and roll it around on the grass to flush out a lot of rust in the water jacket. My pex is gray, not white from the residual iron oxide.

Daveinscranton

I like the CH2 suggestion and different curve if the rest of the system supports it.  (Not familiar with your boiler)

You could use a wind up electro mechanical timer.  Instead of a thermostat.  They are cheap. Available in 15 minute (max), 30 minute (max) etc flavors.  Wind it up to X number of minutes and done.  Shuts itself off.

Now you are down to 2 extra wires with something that shuts itself off and can’t be inadvertently left on.

cooper185

Daveinscranton said:

I like the CH2 suggestion and different curve if the rest of the system supports it.  (Not familiar with your boiler)

You could use a wind up electro mechanical timer.  Instead of a thermostat.  They are cheap. Available in 15 minute (max), 30 minute (max) etc flavors.  Wind it up to X number of minutes and done.  Shuts itself off.

Now you are down to 2 extra wires with something that shuts itself off and can’t be inadvertently left on.

Thanks for all the suggestions Daveinscranton. I put a couple of push-button timers in for my two domestic hot water recirculating pumps. The one to the second floor wastes a little energy because the height creates a natural convection. I could prevent that by closing the ball valve, but that would be a PITA. Since then I've had a pipe dream of a ladder logic circuit opening an electronic valve before energizing the recirc pump, then turning the recirc pump off before closing the electronic valve. It'll never happen.

cooper185

Solved: Tech at Triangle Tube said that my outdoor temperature sensor, Triangle Tube model PSSENS01, has a resistance of 12K ohm at 78°F, and 89.93K ohm at 0°F. No sensor or a broken one would simulate an open circuit with infinite resistance. I'll just put in an on/off switch to break the circuit when I wand the boiler to fire at it's maximum set point. My modulating boiler will be temporarily inefficient at those times. Thanks for all your help pitching in!

hot_rod

Maybe use a spring wound timer instead of an on/ off switch. So you don't forget to turn off the sensor bypass?

cooper185

Good idea, especially for this 73 yr. old noggin of mine.

cooper185

Finally got my inline SPST wall switch (no hot, neutral, or ground wires) spliced into one wire of the outside temperature sensor yesterday evening. With a closed circuit to my outdoor temperature sensor, and the outside temperature being 32°F, the boiler's modulation curve reached 142° supply water. At that same outside temperature, with temperature sensor's circuit open, the supply temperature topped out a 182°F, which is the normal maximum set point for when the outside temperature is 0°F. My wife and are enjoying a toasty new year's morning. After a much quicker time reaching a comfortable 72°, I (the non-automatic boiler modulator) have switched the outdoor sensor back online.

pecmsg

I setback mine to 67°F but have a window cracked open in the bedroom. That room hovers around 60 but the rest of the house is warm in the AM.

SweatHog

Removed