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Completely brand-new setup and we continue to have issues.

Hello,
Not sure if anyone can help with this but we paid a pretty penny for an entirely new setup and we continue to have so many issues. Since complete system replacement, they’ve replaced the motor and gas pump twice and the tiger loop. Now the system is making a very loud rumbling sound. The company we have been working with has not called us back in over 24 hours. The picture shows a Beckett but they recent it replaced with a Carlin. 

Prior to purchasing our house this past summer, the entire heating oil tank was brought above ground and replaced. 

Does anyone know of any known issues with the parts shown in the photos?

Here are the details on the boiler:

Description: Blr WTGO-3 S4 T007e
Model: WTG
Size: 3
Manufacture Date: 08/02/2023

At this point, we’re contacting another company for a second opinion because we’re weary of the current company.

Help!



n 

Comments

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,723
    That's definitely fixable by the proper people. Where are you located? We might know someone.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 22,916
    There's nothing I see inherently problematic with your setup. However, if the people setting up the burner don't know what they are doing you will have problems -- and, unhappily, that may include the choice of nozzle and baffles and so on of the burner. Someone knowledgeable needs to look at that...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    mattmia2
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,795
    "A loud rumbling noise," you say.
    Can you post the sound here?

    What comes to mind is bad fuel or a partially plugged fuel filter? making the flame pulse and surge.
    Air in the system? Causing a coins in a piggy bank sound when shaken.

    Try to post the sound here.

  • DJD775
    DJD775 Member Posts: 241
    I think you are doing the right thing by getting a second company (hopefully better) to troubleshoot the problem. The good news is that the initial install doesn't look like a hack job.
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,563
    edited December 2023
    It is quite obvious that the installers know nothing about Oil Heat. There are so many things in the way that maintenance on this boiler (that should be completed every year) is going to be difficult at best. The top cover of that boiler needs to be removed, then the to insulation is removed, then the internal flue collector is removed to access the heat exchanger. Then after inspecting the spaces between the sections, if there is any buildup, A brush needs to be run between the sections.

    Then take the flue connector pipe, how do you access that pipe with the expansion tank in the way. No one is going to check the base of that chimney, until soot is pouring out of that draft control.

    I'm not a fan of Weil McLain boiler sections because they are already difficult to clean when it is easy to get to. When you put so many road blocks in the way, you are asking for the service man that is going to clean that heater to have a bad day.

    And all of that could be avoided with good planing, and a well though out installation.

    Get another company that understands Oil Heat to set that burner up properly, and hope the heat exchanger is not already filled with soot.
    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,317
    @EdTheHeaterMan

    Boiler passages???? What are those??" Now with most technicians a soot stick a nozzle and a filter is all you get for a tune up. Oh, :) you wanted us to actually clean the boiler???? :)

    I can't say they did anything wrong except for the makeup water business under the Spiro vent and expansion tank sure could have been done a bit better and access to the flue pipe is nonexistent.

    I am concerned about the combustion air louver.


    They obviously need to come back and set the burner up right as that is probably the main issue.
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,744
    So in order for the sale to go through, the seller needed to abandon the buried oil tank. Was the oil (that you paid for at closing)  transfered from the old tank to the new tank? 
    If so, I would get it tested for water, sludge, and contaminates.
    Still money in escrow?

    If the oil tank is right on the other side of the wall, I wouldn't think there'd be a suction leak, but without the right tools to check, who knows? 

    It's a brand new boiler with a burner factory set for that specific boiler. It shouldn't be hard to figure out for any experienced oil tech. When you replace the whole burner because you can't diagnose the issue is pretty much the definition of unqualified. 

    Where are you located?
  • jesmed1
    jesmed1 Member Posts: 554

    @EdTheHeaterMan
    Boiler passages???? What are those??" Now with most technicians a soot stick a nozzle and a filter is all you get for a tune up. Oh, :) you wanted us to actually clean the boiler???? :)

    In fairness, there are some oil companies that will still do a thorough cleaning of Weil McLain pin-type boilers despite the hassle, and our is one of them. Every fall they spend a couple of hours cleaning our two WGO-5 boilers, and it is a pain, but they take the time to do it right.

    So I have to agree with @EdTheHeaterMan that the very limited access to the top of the boiler is going to be problematic, and that a better choice for that setup might have been something like a Buderus that gets cleaned from the front instead of the top.

    EdTheHeaterManIronman
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,563
    jesmed1 said:

    @EdTheHeaterMan
    Boiler passages???? What are those??" Now with most technicians a soot stick a nozzle and a filter is all you get for a tune up. Oh, :) you wanted us to actually clean the boiler???? :)

    In fairness, there are some oil companies that will still do a thorough cleaning of Weil McLain pin-type boilers despite the hassle, and our is one of them. Every fall they spend a couple of hours cleaning our two WGO-5 boilers, and it is a pain, but they take the time to do it right.

    So I have to agree with @EdTheHeaterMan that the very limited access to the top of the boiler is going to be problematic, and that a better choice for that setup might have been something like a Buderus that gets cleaned from the front instead of the top.

    Keep that oil dealer. I hope that guy will teach someone how to do it right. Some day he will retire and they will need someone to carry on the tradition of "Doing It Right". I have trained at least 15 over my career. I believe I was trained well and I hope I passed that on to the next generation. It’s tough to find good help. Especially in the oil heat trade.
    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
    jesmed1
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,120
    @EdTheHeaterMan Boiler passages???? What are those??" Now with most technicians a soot stick a nozzle and a filter is all you get for a tune up. Oh, :) you wanted us to actually clean the boiler???? :)
    In fairness, there are some oil companies that will still do a thorough cleaning of Weil McLain pin-type boilers despite the hassle, and our is one of them. Every fall they spend a couple of hours cleaning our two WGO-5 boilers, and it is a pain, but they take the time to do it right. So I have to agree with @EdTheHeaterMan that the very limited access to the top of the boiler is going to be problematic, and that a better choice for that setup might have been something like a Buderus that gets cleaned from the front instead of the top.
    Keep that oil dealer. I hope that guy will teach someone how to do it right. Some day he will retire and they will need someone to carry on the tradition of "Doing It Right". I have trained at least 15 over my career. I believe I was trained well and I hope I passed that on to the next generation. It’s tough to find good help. Especially in the oil heat trade.
    Even better, make sure the guys are trained in combustion analysis.  Most of the boilers my company work on don't need to be brushed and vacuumed annually.  With today's low sulfur oil and a proper tune up to a true zero smoke the boiler should run as clean as a gas boiler. 
    EBEBRATT-EdEdTheHeaterMan
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,317
    @SuperTech agree. Some jobs every 2-4 years is enough. But that make technicians lazy LOL

    Not like the old stuff I used to work on in the early 70s. Oil was cheap people ran burners installed in the 20s & 30s and wouldn't buy a new one unless the end cone burned off or some part failed that you couldn't cobb back together. Not likely. old stack switches with the old rubber covered wire that was all brittle. The good old days. Everything covered with asbestos.
  • MaxMercy
    MaxMercy Member Posts: 497
    Just to clarify..

    You said you have an "entirely new setup". To me that means everything - new boiler, burner, and pretty much everything in the pics, yes? You said it had a Beckett originally, but now has a Carlin. Did the Beckett come pre-packaged with the boiler or did the installer select the parts and assemble on site?

    That's important because if it's prepackaged, we would know you have the right size nozzle, head, and baffles.

    You said you had continuing issues from the beginning, but didn't say what they were. Were you getting loss of heat or just noises? They replaced the new Beckett with a Carlin, and now you're getting rumbling noises, but were the rumbling noises there with the Beckett and still with the Carlin?

    In any case, that system should run perfectly and quietly and it shouldn't take much time to find out why it's not.

    HVACNUTSuperTechMikeAmann
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,744
  • Grallert
    Grallert Member Posts: 637
    Nothing looks wrong or too cumbersome to service. It's concerning that the burner was changed. Why? Either way it sounds like the thing needs to be tuned, by someone with a digital analyser and who knows how to use it. All is not lost you'll be happy when it's set up correctly.
    Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager,teacher and dog walker
    Intplm.
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,563
    edited December 2023
    Grallert said:

    Nothing looks wrong or too cumbersome to service. It's concerning that the burner was changed. Why? Either way it sounds like the thing needs to be tuned, by someone with a digital analyser and who knows how to use it. All is not lost you'll be happy when it's set up correctly.

    Really? How easy is it to get that flue connector (the smoke pipe from the boiler to the chimney base) off to inspect the base of the chimney? or is that not included in what you call maintenance? And the electric switch has a conduit next to the DHW cold and hot feeds that drop down very close to the top of the boiler jacket that needs to be removed to inspect the flue passages in the top of the boiler. Or maybe that is not included in your maintenance service. It's in the manual for annual inspections.
    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
    Grallert
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,744
    edited December 2023
    Nothing looks wrong or too cumbersome to service. It's concerning that the burner was changed. Why? Either way it sounds like the thing needs to be tuned, by someone with a digital analyser and who knows how to use it. All is not lost you'll be happy when it's set up correctly.
    Really? How easy is it to get that flue connector (the smoke pipe from the boiler to the chimney base) off to inspect the base of the chimney? or is that not included in what you call maintenance? And the electric switch has a conduit next to the DHW cold and hot feeds that drop down very close to the top of the boiler jacket that needs to be removed to inspect the flue passages in the top of the boiler. Or maybe that is not included in your maintenance service. It's in the manual for annual inspections.
    Calm down there, Tarzan. I don't think @Grallert described his maintenance procedures. I dont know the guy but maybe he's like Eddie Vedder and can swing from the rafters.
    It's definitely not the most well thought out arrangement, but totally serviceable. 
    2 Phillips heads to take the roof off and (4) 7/16 nuts to take off the hood and you're in.
    An upside-down 5 gallon bucket will get you to pop the flue el and check/clean the base.

    It is a narrow room, so why it wasn't turned 90° is beyond me, but I've seen a heck of a lot worse. 

    And I don't think the OP is coming back so it's all moot anyway. 


    GrallertSuperTech
  • Grallert
    Grallert Member Posts: 637
    edited December 2023
    Before I landed in my present gig I swung from a few rafters lol. Have I seen, serviced and installed better installs? you bet. Have seen and serviced worse? Of course. Is it something I'd cry about if I walked into that cellar? Not from what I can tell. Pain to brush? yes all WMs are. That flue will come off. It went on it'll come off.
    So, have it set up correctly and you'll be fine. Still am curious as to why the original burn was replaced.
    Merry Christmas
    Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager,teacher and dog walker
    HVACNUT