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Called in the Big Guns yesterday....

Mad Dog_2
Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,399
Harlan "The Colonel" (Sanders of KFC ๐Ÿ— Fame..the only other Harlan I know!) Wank, Licensed Master Plumber and Valley Stream Plumbing Board Member jumped in the trenches with me yesterday.. a 14 Hour Marathon.ย  ย 

This commercial building was having sewage backups every week...Mad Dog ๐Ÿ•ย 

PeteA

Comments

  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,399
    The biggest issue here was that the house trap was 4 feet down in a tiny barely accessible pit, so it was never getting properly serviced.ย  Once we got all these clean outs cut in, and deluged the building drain with all the Toilets flushing at once, the raw sewage lying under the basement slab in the 4" Drain oozed human Splunck
    And Poo poo ๐Ÿ’ฉ for a Full 3 minutes (backed up and lying in there for God Knows How long??ย  ย Now the sewer cleaners can really maintain it.ย  We burned out on old Lead & Oakum joint & poured a new one.ย  Great Working with you, Colonel!ย  Mad Dog ๐Ÿ•ย 
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,102
    Gee, that looks like fun
    Mad Dog_2SuperTech
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,221
    So, you all were trying out for "Magnum, P.U."? >:)
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    Mad Dog_2PeteAEdTheHeaterMan
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,399
    Something wrong with me. The grimier and low down, the more I embrace it...Harlan The Colonel was a champ..Got 5 years on me... Fine plumber and man to work the trenches with...Mad Dog ๐Ÿ•ย 
    PeteA
  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,642
    Backing up sewers is this maintenance man's nightmare. Just the mention of a backup triggers me
    Mad Dog_2
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,661
    Nasty work! Hope you were paid a lot....
    Mad Dog_2
  • realliveplumber
    realliveplumber Member Posts: 354
    I can smell it from here.
    Mad Dog_2
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,032
    What does a house trap do? Keep sewer gas from reachingโ€ฆthe individual fixture traps? Help me understandย 

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    Mad Dog_2CLamb
  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,642

    What does a house trap do? Keep sewer gas from reachingโ€ฆthe individual fixture traps? Help me understandย 

    I dont have one in this house but my brother has one in his. Basically a four inch trap ( I think my brother's is double trapped) before it goes thru foundation to street main.

  • guzzinerd
    guzzinerd Member Posts: 244
    Holy crap!
    Bryant 245-8 2-pipe steam in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains.ย  26 radiators heating up 3800sqf.
    SlamDunkMad Dog_2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,395
    why are there like 6 cleanouts?
    Mad Dog_2MikeAmann
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,032
    SlamDunk said:
    What does a house trap do? Keep sewer gas from reachingโ€ฆthe individual fixture traps? Help me understandย 
    I dont have one in this house but my brother has one in his. Basically a four inch trap ( I think my brother's is double trapped) before it goes thru foundation to street main.
    Yes thatโ€™s what it is, but what does it do? What is the benefit?

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • ScottSecor
    ScottSecor Member Posts: 878
    I have a slab home and have a house trap about a foot in front of my house. It is my understanding the purpose of the house trap is to prevent sewer gases from the street from entering my house. Right next to the house trap is a cleanout for the street side. Closest to the house is a full size vent.
    Mad Dog_2
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,032
    OK so if you have a house trap you don't need a trap under each sink then?

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,756

    OK so if you have a house trap you don't need a trap under each sink then?

    no, you still do, there's still stinky poo poo inside the house
    known to beat dead horses
    Mad Dog_2
  • ScottSecor
    ScottSecor Member Posts: 878
    House trap to prevent your neighbors smell from entering your home. Your traps (sink/tub/toilet) prevent your smell from entering your house. Something like that.
    Mad Dog_2
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,032
    OK that makes sense then. I only want my sewage smell inside my pipes, not anyone else's sewage smell in my pipes. And I'm willing to risk eventual clogging and backups to ensure it!

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,107
    House traps areย  a NY thing. Maybe to keep rats out?ย 
    Mad Dog_2mattmia2
  • ScottSecor
    ScottSecor Member Posts: 878
    House traps on this side of the Hudson River too. Maybe they are supposed to keep out the NYC rats from NJ?

    By the way, nice job @Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2EdTheHeaterMan
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,399
    Paul. Yes a Building House trap serves two purposes:ย 

    1) Keep Methane Gases from the street sewer main and lateral from entering the Building.ย  There have been incidents in NYC when a Gasoline โ›ฝ tanker turned over and gas vapors filled and unoccupied Building whose main house trap had lost its water seal through evaporation.ย  The traps on the sinks were dry too.ย  Something ignited the gas vapors and Building went BOOM ๐Ÿ’ฅ ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿ‘Œ.ย 

    2) Deter Rats & Water ๐Ÿ› bugs et cetera from entering the building. I've seen videos of rats ๐Ÿ€ negotiating a Water closet trap much to the shock of the person on the potty.ย  There are videos ๐Ÿ“น too.ย  House Trap GOOD thing.ย  Mad Dog ๐Ÿ•ย 
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,399
    Mattmia: I was told going in that this was a frequent backup problem.ย  The old house trap was 4 feet down in a 16" sqaure pit...very hard to snake & maintain.ย  I designed the long access pit and the maximum clean outs for ease of ridding.ย  As an Old Sewer & Drain Veteran (Worked my way through College with the Electricic Eel & General, I would KISS ๐Ÿ’‹ the guy who put in all those Clean outs!ย  Mad Dog ๐Ÿ•ย 
    mattmia2reggi
  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,642
    We have partial basements with crawl spaces. In older post, i found my sewer main's vent pipe cracked as it went vertical into a wall. Every once in awhile, the house would wreak!

    My neighbor doesnt have a house trap either and a plumber left a cap off a cleanout in basement. After three weeks, the basement was crawling with rats. They didn't go down there often.
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,032
    Thanks Matt! So in your first example it took a gas tanker crashing outside the building to demonstrate the value of the trap but the trap didnโ€™t help and the building exploded anywayโ€ฆnot a strong benefit there I must say ๐Ÿ˜…

    and in the second example, a 1 foot swim is going to keep out a NYC rat? Yeah ok ๐Ÿ˜‚

    but I thank you for the response!

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,399
    No...an empty trap (no water Seal) is as useless as a Rifle without a Cartridge.. Plumbing codes generally state : "a minimum water seal of 2"-4" inches SHALL be maintained...it wasn'tย  that's on the building owner. If the water seal was maintained, No Gas Vapors in building no boom !ย  The gas vapors of The adjacent buildings were good.ย  ย No BOOM ...KAAABESCH Paul?? Mad Dog ๐Ÿ• ๐Ÿคฃย 
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,399
    I Wrote DETER...not STOP, ALL RATS. If you know Rat behavior, they always take the path if least resistance and aren't crazy about swimming but will. I've worked in public Housing, Subways, The Brooklyn Waterfront..Know rat ๐Ÿ€ behavior very well. Raised them for pet stores as a teen. I Had a Large Black & a Large Brown as pets..Ben & Socrates.ย  They were my shoulder traveling buddies around the neighborhood to freak the girls out! Ha ha ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿคฃ ๐Ÿ˜† Mad ๐Ÿ• Dogย 
    CLamb
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,399
    Colonel Harlan melting out the old hub. Mad Dog ๐Ÿ•ย 
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,032
    Mad Dog_2 said:

    I Wrote DETER...not STOP, ALL RATS. If you know Rat behavior, they always take the path if least resistance and aren't crazy about swimming but will. I've worked in public Housing, Subways, The Brooklyn Waterfront..Know rat ๐Ÿ€ behavior very well. Raised them for pet stores as a teen. I Had a Large Black & a Large Brown as pets..Ben & Socrates.ย  They were my shoulder traveling buddies around the neighborhood to freak the girls out! Ha ha ๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿคฃ ๐Ÿ˜† Mad ๐Ÿ• Dogย 

    I'm not sure rats are like steam and water in that way of taking the easiest route...rats will climb up a vertical stack and then squeeze through a toilet trap, as you said, no? So I think a house trap is no deterrence at all but I admit I've never been up to my elbows in a clogged one so I defer to your experience!

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    Mad Dog_2
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,107
    I would assume that main purpose is redundant protection. Fixture traps are great but won't help if a pipe cracks or if a trap dries up (floor drain, unused fixture.....). Obviously, there will still be potential hazard from the lovely contents within the house piping, but significantly less than full exposure to all of NYC's lovely sewer contents.ย 
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 8,590

    Before. . . . . . . .AFTER

    Medium Rare . . . . . . . . . . . Well Done

    Matt. I'm going to have to stop reading your posts. Between the brewery and this Fillet Mignon I won't eat at the Steak House Brew Pub anymore.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    GGrossMad Dog_2
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,137
    edited December 2023
    For what it's worth UPC does not allow building traps unless the local authority requires them.

    @EdTheHeaterMan I'm at a loss for words..........




    In Mad Dog's area they're required.
    Most other places they're illegal.

    Weird world we live in.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    CLamb
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,137
    @Mad Dog_2
    Curious,
    Do you guys wear any kind of dust mask or eye protection? I'm speaking in regards to viruses etc.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    CLambSlamDunk