New boiler dirty and surging

Levie

Hi I just installed a new 400k BTU boiler and I'm having surging and very dirty water after the boiler warms up.
I have 2x 3" coming off the boiler going up 24" with a 4" header.
I tried flushing the boiler servral times and I added surgex but still nothing helps.
I also tried skimming for about 2 hours.

Is my next step using a wand? I'm not to excited about the mess it makes but not sure I have a choice.
Thx
Levi

Levie

This is the boiler before the Hartford loof was done

Big Ed_4

You will need to skim the oil off the surface on the water . Most steam boilers today add a larger side port in which you can add a nipple and float off the slick into a bucket .

Big Ed_4

Insulate the steam supply pipes ...

Levie

I did try skimming for an hour or two but would that help for the dirty water also? Or only for the oil?
Also how would insulating the mains help with surging?

neilc

that pipe job looks good from here,
post a picture of your sightglass, Ptrol, and from where you're Skimming,

Levie

I'll post tomorrow when I get back there.
I have an inch and a quarter skimport on the top of the boiler with a full port valve piped in
The boiler gets really dirty and surges before I get any pressure so I'm not sure the pressure troll would matter .
Also I'm losing a lot of water and I go off on low water cut off before the pressure even starts building up I was imagining that's because of the surging but not sure

STEAM DOCTOR

Wand does not make a mess at all. Use a two and a half inch nipple, and stick a bucket underneath to catch the water. Use a water transfer pump to pump water to good location

STEAM DOCTOR

For what it's worth, I have had an issue with the recent 63 series. Same issue that you're having. With few different boilers. Not quite sure what it is. Maybe they change their oil type or they're just using more oil.

neilc

where is your installer on this?
don't they owe you a skim or 2?

you said losing a lot of water, where?
are you loosing it, and having to replace it?
or is it going up the system and coming back?
not good to be adding lots, or much of any, water to a boiler

Levie

Lol I'm the installer and the water is coming back it's just leaving way too fast and I imagine because of the surging.
Thx

pedmec

add a pound of TSP to the boiler. Flood the boiler. let it get hot and stay hot for 2 hours but do not let it steam. Then flush the boiler. If you have a king valve on the supplies shut them down. You want to avoid getting the TSP out into the system. Works every time. Let me know how you make out.

By the way. Nice looking job. Way to use cast iron fittings and schedule 40. Professional all the way

neilc

Levie said:

Lol I'm the installer

whoopss

Levie

pedmec said:

add a pound of TSP to the boiler. Flood the boiler. let it get hot and stay hot for 2 hours but do not let it steam. Then flush the boiler. If you have a king valve on the supplies shut them down. You want to avoid getting the TSP out into the system. Works every time. Let me know how you make out. By the way. Nice looking job. Way to use cast iron fittings and schedule 40. Professional all the way

Thanks I will give that a try do you have any idea if I can install a regular boiler drain ball valve on a boiler I'm just worried because the handle is plastic that it shouldn't melt.
I have the one that came with the boiler but it's not full port and takes forever to drain 
Thx

KC_Jones

2 hours of skimming is a good start. I’d estimate you’re about 1/4 of the way there, maybe less than 1/4.

Im thinking you feel that 2 hours of skimming is adequate, it is not. Feel free to try any of the above suggestions as they do work. Based on skimming only, you simply haven’t skimmed enough if it’s still surging.

That must be some mansion you’re working on there.

EBEBRATT-Ed

The correct amount of TSP is 1 pound for every 50 gallons of boiler water. I have never had TSP not work and I seldom had to skim for more than 2 hours.

Levie

Anything to worry about with TSP I see people say it could be a little dangerous for the system if you're not careful with it.

Davidho

STEAM DOCTOR said:

For what it's worth, I have had an issue with the recent 63 series. Same issue that you're having. With few different boilers. Not quite sure what it is. Maybe they change their oil type or they're just using more oil.

I am doing this right now on 63-06.  Is it the paste when pulling the two halves together?  I just did 5 hours straight and still have more to do.

Levie

Davidho said:

STEAM DOCTOR said:

For what it's worth, I have had an issue with the recent 63 series. Same issue that you're having. With few different boilers. Not quite sure what it is. Maybe they change their oil type or they're just using more oil.

I am doing this right now on 63-06.  Is it the paste when pulling the two halves together?  I just did 5 hours straight and still have more to do.

You did 5 hours straight just skimming or did you put tsp in it?
I'm wondering if we'll be faster to go with a wand I did leave a 2 in plug on the bottom 

Davidho

I followed peerless website procedure bring it to steam shut it off,  add arm and hammer super washing soda skim till cold.  It was crystal clear had a brand new steel bucket i drained in no red no nothing.  They then say fill up into header and drain down. First time making steam red slime running down sight glass.

neilc

you may want to warm the water, maybe as much as a dull simmer, just making baby vapor,
but,
don't boil it,
or you're just throwing oil all around in the chest which will need to be washed down, and skimmed yet again,

EBEBRATT-Ed

And don't make steam you could get TSP in the system. Just bring it close to a boil and then skim. Then drain and refill a few times to get rid of the TSP.

pecmsg

400,000 BTU,s ?

Levie

Yes 400,000 BTUs. It's a very large house and I measured all the radiators and that's what we came up with.
I flushed the returns today they were mad dirty.
I also built a wand and wash down the boiler but not much dirt came out of there hope it took out any leftover oil.
We'll give it a shot tomorrow and see what happens

Levie

Just to update you guys I flushed all returns and reconnected pipes using megapress.
And I use the wand to clean out the boiler didn't see much dirt come out of the boiler for definitely got a lot of dirty water out of the wet returns.
I still have a little bit of surging but not like before and no dirty water and probably still have to skim.
Thx
Levi

ChrisJ

Levie said:

Yes 400,000 BTUs. It's a very large house and I measured all the radiators and that's what we came up with.
I flushed the returns today they were mad dirty.
I also built a wand and wash down the boiler but not much dirt came out of there hope it took out any leftover oil.
We'll give it a shot tomorrow and see what happens

400K wow.
Going by the actual heat my 1860s house uses when it's -8F outside I come up with roughly 6900sqft of house?

Big Ed_4

I wouldn't recommend adding chemicals , you just need to skim as of now .

A better recondition keep the oil out on the installation . Five gallon bucket of water with detergent sitting by the vice works ....

WMno57

WMno57

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/186222/2-pipe-system-unknown-part

Levie

WMno57 said:

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/186222/2-pipe-system-unknown-part

Yup that was a while back when the old boiler was still there good eye!

Levie

Now that we're on the topic this system has no traps at the end of the mains they just drip right into the wet return and they don't have any way to vent besides through the radiators would it be wise for me to add main events or a trap at the end of the main supply?