Info on 1947 Jantrol gas conversion on 100 year old coal ARCO boiler.

CarlM

I’ve maintained a 100 year old ARCO steam boiler that got a Janitrol gas conversion in 1947.  Everything worked great until this year.  The pilot thermo switch is now intermittent.  Won’t start on call up.  I can manually open the gas valve to maintain heat and will usually kick in the switch.  I’ve bypassed the switch and I know it’s dangerous to do that but the pilot has never gone out the 38 years I had the house.  I can’t find any info on this gas burner except a Janitorial ad.  Does any one know about this unit?  Looking to replace switch.  

mattmia2

First, turn off the manual valve and call someone competent to work on this. If you think it is ever ok to bypass the pilot safety while you're not standing next to it and closely observing it you are not qualified to work on this. This is how several houses get levelled in an explosion.

Is the pilot safety a little box with a button/lever on it that you press to reset it? if so it is probably a worn out thermocouple or possible a pilot burner that isn't burning correctly. It could be a couple other pilot safety systems, show a picture of what you have.

There is a bigger issue here, the burner burning correctly in these is dependent on a gas tech testing and adjusting combustion and draft. These must be serviced by a tech that makes sure they are burning properly every couple years, conversions aren't like modern appliances that usually burn kind of ok even if they aren't adjusted for the environment they are installed in. This is not a DIY project. You need a tech that understands conversion burners.

Steamhead

@Tim McElwain ?

bburd

Your gas supplier may be able to recommend someone familiar with those old conversion burners. 

CarlM

Thanks for your comments. I’ve called a number of people to look at it.  Gas company too.  All your suggestions refer to more modern equipment. This puppy was put in 76 years ago on a coal fired boiler.  The company has no documentation.  The 5 people who came and looked at it just scratched their heads and said they never worked on anything like this. Two said I knew more about it than they did after I explained how it worked.  I wanted to know if anyone had any documentation.   The majority suggestion was to get a new boiler.  Yeah it’s time.  Most of these were pulled in the 70s. BTW my gas bills were quite good and we always had great heat on all radiators and no noise from hammering or venting.  I’ve done proper maintenance all these years.  In the 38 years I’ve lived here I only had to change one air vent that didn’t close.  That’s why I never changed it.  Knew this day would come.  

SNS

nice boiler, that's some asbestos artistry! my dad told me when he was helping his dad install boilers and it was time to insulate them the entire basement was filled with a thick fog as soon as they opened the bag of asbestos. he said you could barely see through it. you could replace the burner gun

retiredguy

I saw a lot of that type conversion burner when I started in the business in 1968. They are usually pretty simple in design and operation. When you call a company to fix it, tell them that it is a conversion burner for a coal boiler and ask to talk with the oldest member they have. The pilot was usually a White Rodgers safety pilot that is not made any more or some type of thermocouple hook-up. That gas valve looks like a Honeywell motorized valve also not made any more. If that was my unit I would try to get it fixed to be used just for this winter season and replace it next year. However, if it can't be fixed then I would see if someone could replace it right away. By the way, I would not open that gas valve manually because it could take your life or worse. I have seen all kinds of accidents, both gas (furnace) and steam (boiler) accidents. None of them are pretty and most resulted in "loss of life". My 2 cents.

CarlM

Yeah. On call up, motor turns gears that mechanically opens valve and air vent. I could manually turn on gas and vent by moving gears and holding open with piece of cardboard in gears. Electric but no electronics. 

EdTheHeaterMan

I am not recommending this, but that boiler may have many years of life left in that cast iron. You may be able to get another conversion burner installed in that old girl.

mattmia2

Show the pilot and what is in the pilot.

There won't be instructions for the because it was conversion of a coal boiler(or at least instructions that explain what is needed for it to be safe). The person that converted it had to understand how to make the new burner burn properly in the old boiler. There are still people out there that understand this and you need to find them. The people who say you know more bout it than them can't make sure it is safe. Try looking for people who are national comfort institute certified for combustion.

Steamhead

That's an old round boiler in an insulating shell. These were 40-50% efficient at best. Just sayin'........

CarlM

Thanks for your feed back.  Just replacing it for a new boiler.  Got the contractor from this site.  Not a thermocouple but a thermoswitch that would open unpredictably.  It just made sure the pilot was lit.  Boiler only had pressure relief vent, pressuretrol and that thermoswitch as safety.  No rollout fuse, spill switch or low water cutoff.  They lived dangerously back then.  

mattmia2

What's that box clamped to the gas pipe about half way up?

mattmia2

It could have been replaced with a modern combination valve and thermocouple by the right person but that money is better put toward a new boiler in this situation.

bburd

@CarlM we'll be interested to see the new installation and hear about how your fuel bill changes with the new boiler.

EdTheHeaterMan

Sorry to see the O'l girl go... That 2 tone paint job makes her a real looker!

Surprised she is missing the lipstick. I would have painted the doors RED!

But everyone need to retire at some point.

The new one will be a beauty, I'm sure.

EdTheHeaterMan

Where are you located?

JUGHNE

Ed, you have too much time on your hands.

Besides, are you sure that isn't a "boy" boiler.....looking at the appendage at the floor?

Steamhead

mattmia2 said:

What's that box clamped to the gas pipe about half way up?

Probably a device to light the pilot.

CarlM

mattmia2 said:

What's that box clamped to the gas pipe about half way up?

That is a pilot ignitor. 24 volts is sent to a high voltage transformer that's under the hood at the bottom. Sends a spark to the ignitor. Has a little light that goes on until the pilot lights..

CarlM

Did abatement. Here it is stripped down. you decide

WMno57

Thank you for posting the picture of your boiler without its jacket. Similar to this one in this discussion:
https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/194738/arco-ideal-28-hot-water-boiler-age-and-info
The top "donut" casting looks a little different. Good luck with your project.

CarlM

Mine was a '22 Model. Contractor had a '28 ARCO catalog. yours was in it. We couldn't find my model. My Rads are still original ARCOs. They're staying. Sad to see it go since the boiler wasn't what failed. It was just crazy to try to get only a new conversion burner. Most of these were pulled in the 60s and 70s. Try to get a boiler to last 100 years today. I appreciate the old things.

Tim McElwain

Sorry to see these old units pass away. There are still things that can be done to them to keep them working, By the way the valve on that conversion was a Honeywell V-155 motorized valve. Many times just adding some lubircant will get them up and running. I still have some of the old special lubricant used on those vlaves. But too late she is gone now. The lubricant was called FINOL:.

mattmia2

@Tim McElwain if someone had bought a better boiler 90 years ago our advice might have been different.

Tim McElwain

We still have a lot of those Arco running here in New England thats for sure.

CarlM

Tim McElwain said:

Sorry to see these old units pass away. There are still things that can be done to them to keep them working, By the way the valve on that conversion was a Honeywell V-155 motorized valve. Many times just adding some lubircant will get them up and running. I still have some of the old special lubricant used on those vlaves. But too late she is gone now. The lubricant was called FINOL:.

That wasn't what I had trouble with. I kept that motor and gears lubricated. There was a thermoswitch(Not a thermocouple as others have mentioned) that was a safety cutoff if the pilots went out. That switch was getting intermittent and the furnace would not always come up on call for heat. If I tapped the switch it would work again for a few days or even a couple of weeks but it was part of the pilot assembly and I couldn't locate a replacement.

mattmia2

I suppose you could have replaced it with a thermocouple and a baso switch without replacing the valve although that motorized valve seems as likely to get stuck open as closed which is kind of pretty unsafe.