Balancing a steam system

HeatingN00b

Hello all. This might be a stupid question but I can't figure out how to determine the last radiator on my 1 pipe steam system.

At the moment I have the first and second floor with maid o mist number 5 and the room with the thermostat number 4. 

Might be the lack of sleep (new baby, or the wife nagging of the lack of heat on th seconds floor) I can't find the last radiator on the system. 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

bburd

Follow the steam main from the boiler in the basement. The last radiator is the longest path from the boiler:  the distance from the boiler to the takeoff, plus the length of the riser. Upper floor radiators have long risers.

how is your main venting?

ethicalpaul

Let me offer that it just doesn't matter which one is last. The concern you might want to have is whether each radiator is getting hot in a duration of time that results in a comfortable room.

HeatingN00b

bburd said:

Follow the steam main from the boiler in the basement. The last radiator is the longest path from the boiler:  the distance from the boiler to the takeoff, plus the length of the riser. Upper floor radiators have long risers.

how is your main venting?

Thank you.
So in other words the last radiator can be on the first floor it does not have to be on the last floor? Sorry if I don't get it.

This is the main vent (it looks like a Gorton #1).

HeatingN00b

ethicalpaul said:

Let me offer that it just doesn't matter which one is last. The concern you might want to have is whether each radiator is getting hot in a duration of time that results in a comfortable room.

Yes make sense, but I was thinking that if I put a #5 or a number #6 on th last radiator it might put too much pressure on the line and the steam will not reach the last radiators?

I replaced a vent on a radiator on the second floor that had a dole 1933 and the steam started coming out the packing nut so I thought it was the last radiator on the line and it had too much pressure.... 

This is what it looks like.
https://imgur.com/a/Vmf2IGg

I should have a thermal camera from work tomorrow to see if I can trace the hot lines 

Thank you 

Steamhead

@HeatingN00b , how long are your steam mains and what pipe size are they? Inadequate main venting can cause the problem you are having.

ethicalpaul

All radiators will see basically the same pressure in the entire system at any given time. The steam doesn't like "pile up" at the last radiator.

Based on things you wrote I can tell you might have other misconceptions of what venting does. I would recommend the book "We Got Steam Heat" from the founder of this site, which is available from this site's store. It will show you how your system works.

HeatingN00b

ethicalpaul said:

All radiators will see basically the same pressure in the entire system at any given time. The steam doesn't like "pile up" at the last radiator. Based on things you wrote I can tell you might have other misconceptions of what venting does. I would recommend the book "We Got Steam Heat" from the founder of this site, which is available from this site's store. It will show you how your system works.

Thank you. Will buy the book once I return home later this week 

HeatingN00b

Steamhead said:

@HeatingN00b , how long are your steam mains and what pipe size are they? Inadequate main venting can cause the problem you are having.

Wife measured and she said it's 7 1/2" the circumference.
The length is 451" (according to her, this is from the main vent Gorton #1 to the boiler. Counting the rise and all the turns).

EBEBRATT-Ed

That would be 2" pipe x 37.5 feet

EBEBRATT-Ed

The last radiator would be the radiator with the longest pipe run regardless of where it is located

gfrbrookline

You are looking at steam from the wrong side of the equation. Instead of worrying about a build up of pressure you need to coax the steam to the last radiator by creating low pressure points. Steam moves from high pressure points to low pressure points so progressively adding higher vents will move the heat through your system more evenly. Once all of the radiators are filled with steam your pressurtrol, safety device on the boiler, will cut the burner off if the system builds too much pressure, don't worry about pressure in the radiators.

That being said it only works well if the mains are vented properly in the basement, you would benefit by replacing the gorton No. 1 with a No. 2 to help exhaust the cold air from your system properly so the steam can reach your radiators faster.

Steamhead

gfrbrookline said:

You are looking at steam from the wrong side of the equation. Instead of worrying about a build up of pressure you need to coax the steam to the last radiator by creating low pressure points. Steam moves from high pressure points to low pressure points so progressively adding higher vents will move the heat through your system more evenly. Once all of the radiators are filled with steam your pressurtrol, safety device on the boiler, will cut the burner off if the system builds too much pressure, don't worry about pressure in the radiators.

That being said it only works well if the mains are vented properly in the basement, you would benefit by replacing the gorton No. 1 with a No. 2 to help exhaust the cold air from your system properly so the steam can reach your radiators faster.

This.

gfrbrookline

I live in Boston and had a neighbor that just couldn't get his head around venting his system. I finally just told him to think about the turnpike. If you put your boiler in western MA and the steam needs to get to Boston you need progressively more toll booths and each exit to let the steam or traffic move as the congestion build heading into the city. You start out with a Gorton 4 and may end up with a D depending on the size of your system.

HeatingN00b

gfrbrookline said:

You are looking at steam from the wrong side of the equation. Instead of worrying about a build up of pressure you need to coax the steam to the last radiator by creating low pressure points. Steam moves from high pressure points to low pressure points so progressively adding higher vents will move the heat through your system more evenly. Once all of the radiators are filled with steam your pressurtrol, safety device on the boiler, will cut the burner off if the system builds too much pressure, don't worry about pressure in the radiators. That being said it only works well if the mains are vented properly in the basement, you would benefit by replacing the gorton No. 1 with a No. 2 to help exhaust the cold air from your system properly so the steam can reach your radiators faster.

Thank you for the information. Make sense, I will need to pay attention to the second floor radiators to see if I can determine which one is the last radiator.

I thought that since I changed the vent from a dole 1933 to a maid o mist #5 and it started steaming at the packing nut It was because it was the last radiator and I was not venting it correctly. 


I was unable to find a Gorton #2 3/4 (they told my wife that they don't make them). Vent antler?

Thank you once again.

BobC

All the Gorton #2'/s come with a 1/2" thread, just buy a reducer that goes from 3/4 to 1/2" female and you should be all set. The #2's are pretty big, have you got enough vertical clearance? If you don't have it you can use and elbow and a nipple to get yo someplace that has enough. If that's not possible it's time to build an d antler, 3ea #1's is about the same as a #2,

Bob

HeatingN00b

BobC said:

All the Gorton #2'/s come with a 1/2" thread, just buy a reducer that goes from 3/4 to 1/2" female and you should be all set. The #2's are pretty big, have you got enough vertical clearance? If you don't have it you can use and elbow and a nipple to get yo someplace that has enough. If that's not possible it's time to build an d antler, 3ea #1's is about the same as a #2, Bob

Will take a look once I return to the country, if I have enough space.

Thank you 

ChrisJ

HeatingN00b said:

BobC said:

All the Gorton #2'/s come with a 1/2" thread, just buy a reducer that goes from 3/4 to 1/2" female and you should be all set. The #2's are pretty big, have you got enough vertical clearance? If you don't have it you can use and elbow and a nipple to get yo someplace that has enough. If that's not possible it's time to build an d antler, 3ea #1's is about the same as a #2,

Bob

Will take a look once I return to the country, if I have enough space.

Thank you 

If you don't have the space, I used five Gorton #1's on my 32' long 2" main.
I don't have the vertical height for a #2.

gfrbrookline

If you are getting steam at the packing nut that means it either needs to have the packing replaced or the valve replaced. Leaking packing nuts will cause more boiler problems and should be addressed. Repacking a valve is not a big job, it requires graphite rope and a wrench. There are several YouTube videos on it. If you hire a professional they will be inclined to replace the valve at a much hire price.

Steamhead

gfrbrookline said:

I.......... If you hire a professional they will be inclined to replace the valve at a much hire price.

Not all. We keep packing on our trucks to repair valves that are in otherwise good shape.

gfrbrookline

@Steamhead That is because you are an old school professional.

ChrisJ

I had someone tell me I needed to replace a radiator because the tapping for the vent needed to be tapped deeper.

Jamie Hall

Steamhead said:

gfrbrookline said:

I.......... If you hire a professional they will be inclined to replace the valve at a much hire price.

Not all. We keep packing on our trucks to repair valves that are in otherwise good shape.

That's because you are a craftsman and care.

Steamhead

ChrisJ said:

I had someone tell me I needed to replace a radiator because the tapping for the vent needed to be tapped deeper.

Cue the "Twilight Zone" theme............