100+ Year Old Steam Boiler

posiecki

My system has always worked well.  May not be the most efficient, but it has served us well for at least through this heat season.  I cleaned out the control and valve box recently and may have disrupted the thermocouple.  The unit will not light when the thermostat calls for heat.  I can jump the system on the second and 4th terminal and it will light and turn off when it reaches the setting on the thermostat.  It is very difficult to access the system from the valve box.  Do I need to remove the fire brick to gain access?  Also, I noticed the brick has been patched in the past, where can I get another if this one falls apart?.  Thanks. 

Teemok

Wow. I expect that robot tells Dickens stories continuously. The gauge is beautiful.

leonz

You have coal fired handfed boiler that is covered in asbestos insulation which has been converted to gas fuel. Your coal room should be very close by with a coal chute or window next to the driveway.

The honeywell burner still has visible numbers on and you should visit a large plumbing supply house with the model numbers to see is this thermocouple is available

If all else fails you need a steam licensed plumber to come look at boiler and clean the water feeder and pig tail for the steamtrol too.

mattmia2

It is hard to tell how it is wired from your picture, but is one of the safeties open like the pressuretrol or the lwco? This looks like a millivolt system.

The refractory that goes on top of the conversion burner is long ago discontinued.

mattmia2

Er, sounds more like the thermopile is weak. When was the last time someone that understood combustion and such looked at this?

Steamhead

That boiler is something like 40% efficient. Time to replace it.

posiecki

It is a millivolt system. 

posiecki

It heats a small home of 1100 square feet.  When I make a decision on a replacement, what should I replace it with?  It is natural gas.  Do they make a reliable steam boiler to utilize my radiator system? 

posiecki

I have someone coming by soon.  We'll see how much they know.  But would it make sense to remove the round fire brick to get better access to the pilot and thermopile/thermocouple from the inside? 

ethicalpaul

It's not the sq ft of the house, it's the sq ft of steam radiation of your radiators. Do you know how to measure that? My house isn't much bigger and I put in the smallest Peerless, the 63-03L which is just slightly too big but does fine. The smallest Weil-McClain is a little smaller but I wanted a Peerless.

As a test of any contractor who is quoting for you, see if they want to measure your radiation. If none of them do that, see what size they want to install and report back here. It should be the smallest one if I were betting on it. If they want to go larger without justification of measuring your radiators, send them away.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I agree with the millivolt because there is no visible 120 volt power.

Changing that boiler will be expensive with the asbestos removal.

I would get the boiler running probably needs a power pile.

Then you can take your time getting accurate quotes and vetting contractors. You don't want a rush job with winter approaching. Rush jobs always cost more.

posiecki

Just in case the heating tech coming over, can't figure it out, are any of you folks in New Hampshire or could recommend someone, that could come by and look at it?  

WMno57

New Hampshire contractors here:
https://www.heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/state/NH
Just curious, what is the name on the gas burner cover? Gordon? Sonner?
Your Capital Winchester has the same gas conversion that's on this old Kewanee boiler.

Here is the thread on that one:
https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1621975#

posiecki

Gordon

Mad Dog_2

I would love to rehab a Pancake boiler like that...just to see how long it will run till it leaks...Those castings are as Thick as An Patton Tank...Thinking back, I don't think I've ever seen one spring a leak!  Mad Dog 🐕 

mattmia2

Wasn't the one that leaked on the 1st season of this old house a pancake boiler set up for steam?

Mad Dog_2

Don't remember...maybe they sabotaged it for the show....ha ha 😂 🤣 😆 😄 😅.  I love how they look after a hygienic, well done asbestos abatement...they are like the day they went in.  It would be fun to play with a modern gas gun and add some baffles and passes to extract more BTU out of the flame and increase efficiency.  I've done this on old converted coal boilers, but never a pancake. I spent days tweaking it...alot of fun...learned alot too..Mad Dog 🐕 

mattmia2

This was before abatement, they just pushed it over and hoped some of it came apart when it fell. also replaced the radiators with fin tube.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Mad Dog_2

I think your right. I don't think I ever replaced one that was replaced because it leaked. We used to take a hammer and bust the asbestos off of them. Then slide the top section off and hope it didn't smash the cellar floor, or the oil line lol. I think we got smart and brought a couple of old car tires and tried to land them on those. How they ever lifted the top section on those to assemble them I would like to know. I remember one top section it took 4 of us to get it up the stairs,

Mad Dog_2

I always comment to the boys when we're taking ANY Cast Iron Boiler out that isn't it amazing how the technology to bring down and take up boiler sections and assemble /disassemble them has really not changed in 150 or so years.  We sometimes use an electric hand truck but usually not if we can help it.  Mad Dog 🐕 

posiecki

Just wondering... When this unit eventually does get replaced, give me a ballpark cost on four things:
1.  Asbestos abatement and boiler removal
2.  New Boiler
3.  Chimney liner if needed
4.  HVAC labor

Thanks 

pecmsg

posiecki said:

Just wondering... When this unit eventually does get replaced, give me a ballpark cost on four things:
1.  Asbestos abatement and boiler removal
2.  New Boiler
3.  Chimney liner if needed
4.  HVAC labor

Thanks 

Pricing is a regional thing. There is no way of telling from a computer screen.

posiecki

Well my heating guy came today and we switched out the thermopile.  Didn't light.  So I decided to clang on the LWC and it lit.  I drained a couple of quarts off the system and a bunch of junk came out.  I refilled and turned the thermostat up.  There was a 45 second delay or so, but it lit on its own.  I drain the system of a couple of quarts each month anyway and refill.  I'll monitor a few cycles over the weekend and see if I'm out of the woods. 

leonz

It sounds like your low water cut off needs to be replaced or cleaned.

I will get yelled at for saying this, but if and when you decide to replace this steam boiler you can always
install a small coal fired stoker steam boiler with a gas burner, a drop header, auto feeder and 2 low water cut offs and it will add value to the home as it obviously used coal to heat the home in the past.

neilc

that LWCO should be blown down weekly,
But do it daily this week,
do it while the burner is firing, and as the water drops out, and the LWCO clicks, the Burner MUST shut off,
If it does NOT, shut the Burner off, then disable/shut off your boiler until the LWCO is replaced for new.

posiecki

Can I refill the system while the boiler is hot?  I thought cold and hot shouldn't mix. 

neilc

how empty is empty?
are you seeing water in the siteglass?
I will trickle fill into my hot boiler just to bring the site glass up to midway,
trickle, barely an open valve,
you do not want to fast fill into a hot boiler,
and you DO NOT want to fill into a hot dry boiler,

EBEBRATT-Ed

@posiecki

What @neilc posted

posiecki

I'm talking a quart or so. 

neilc

barely crack the feed valve open and let it trickle in

posiecki

Thanks everyone for your assistance in helping me troubleshoot my system.  It's up and running again. 

mattmia2

did they test the thermopile or did they just replace it because there is a procedure to test it and it won't produce enough current if it isn't in the pilot flame correctly or the pilot flame is not burning right even if it hasn't worn out.

posiecki

They did.  Working as expected.