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100+ Year Old Steam Boiler

posiecki
posiecki Member Posts: 12
My system has always worked well.  May not be the most efficient, but it has served us well for at least through this heat season.  I cleaned out the control and valve box recently and may have disrupted the thermocouple.  The unit will not light when the thermostat calls for heat.  I can jump the system on the second and 4th terminal and it will light and turn off when it reaches the setting on the thermostat.  It is very difficult to access the system from the valve box.  Do I need to remove the fire brick to gain access?  Also, I noticed the brick has been patched in the past, where can I get another if this one falls apart?.  Thanks. 
Mad Dog_2

Comments

  • Teemok
    Teemok Member, Email Confirmation Posts: 671
    Wow. I expect that robot tells Dickens stories continuously. The gauge is beautiful.
  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 1,337
    edited October 2023
    You have coal fired handfed boiler that is covered in asbestos insulation which has been converted to gas fuel. Your coal room should be very close by with a coal chute or window next to the driveway.

    The honeywell burner still has visible numbers on and you should visit a large plumbing supply house with the model numbers to see is this thermocouple is available

    If all else fails you need a steam licensed plumber to come look at boiler and clean the water feeder and pig tail for the steamtrol too.



    Mad Dog_2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,836
    It is hard to tell how it is wired from your picture, but is one of the safeties open like the pressuretrol or the lwco? This looks like a millivolt system.

    The refractory that goes on top of the conversion burner is long ago discontinued.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,836
    Er, sounds more like the thermopile is weak. When was the last time someone that understood combustion and such looked at this?
    Mad Dog_2
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,361
    That boiler is something like 40% efficient. Time to replace it.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    ethicalpaulmattmia2
  • posiecki
    posiecki Member Posts: 12
    It is a millivolt system. 
  • posiecki
    posiecki Member Posts: 12
    It heats a small home of 1100 square feet.  When I make a decision on a replacement, what should I replace it with?  It is natural gas.  Do they make a reliable steam boiler to utilize my radiator system? 
  • posiecki
    posiecki Member Posts: 12
    I have someone coming by soon.  We'll see how much they know.  But would it make sense to remove the round fire brick to get better access to the pilot and thermopile/thermocouple from the inside? 
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,556
    It's not the sq ft of the house, it's the sq ft of steam radiation of your radiators. Do you know how to measure that? My house isn't much bigger and I put in the smallest Peerless, the 63-03L which is just slightly too big but does fine. The smallest Weil-McClain is a little smaller but I wanted a Peerless.

    As a test of any contractor who is quoting for you, see if they want to measure your radiation. If none of them do that, see what size they want to install and report back here. It should be the smallest one if I were betting on it. If they want to go larger without justification of measuring your radiators, send them away.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    posiecki
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,388
    I agree with the millivolt because there is no visible 120 volt power.

    Changing that boiler will be expensive with the asbestos removal.

    I would get the boiler running probably needs a power pile.

    Then you can take your time getting accurate quotes and vetting contractors. You don't want a rush job with winter approaching. Rush jobs always cost more.
    posieckiMad Dog_2reggi
  • posiecki
    posiecki Member Posts: 12
    Just in case the heating tech coming over, can't figure it out, are any of you folks in New Hampshire or could recommend someone, that could come by and look at it?  
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,408
    New Hampshire contractors here:
    https://www.heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/state/NH
    Just curious, what is the name on the gas burner cover? Gordon? Sonner?
    Your Capital Winchester has the same gas conversion that's on this old Kewanee boiler.

    Here is the thread on that one:
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1621975#
  • posiecki
    posiecki Member Posts: 12
    Gordon
    WMno57
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,502
    I would love to rehab a Pancake boiler like that...just to see how long it will run till it leaks...Those castings are as Thick as An Patton Tank...Thinking back, I don't think I've ever seen one spring a leak!  Mad Dog 🐕 
    mattmia2CLamb
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,836
    Wasn't the one that leaked on the 1st season of this old house a pancake boiler set up for steam?
    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,502
    Don't remember...maybe they sabotaged it for the show....ha ha 😂 🤣 😆 😄 😅.  I love how they look after a hygienic, well done asbestos abatement...they are like the day they went in.  It would be fun to play with a modern gas gun and add some baffles and passes to extract more BTU out of the flame and increase efficiency.  I've done this on old converted coal boilers, but never a pancake. I spent days tweaking it...alot of fun...learned alot too..Mad Dog 🐕 
    CLamb
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,836
    This was before abatement, they just pushed it over and hoped some of it came apart when it fell. also replaced the radiators with fin tube.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,388
    @Mad Dog_2

    I think your right. I don't think I ever replaced one that was replaced because it leaked. We used to take a hammer and bust the asbestos off of them. Then slide the top section off and hope it didn't smash the cellar floor, or the oil line lol. I think we got smart and brought a couple of old car tires and tried to land them on those. How they ever lifted the top section on those to assemble them I would like to know. I remember one top section it took 4 of us to get it up the stairs,
    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,502
    I always comment to the boys when we're taking ANY Cast Iron Boiler out that isn't it amazing how the technology to bring down and take up boiler sections and assemble /disassemble them has really not changed in 150 or so years.  We sometimes use an electric hand truck but usually not if we can help it.  Mad Dog 🐕 
  • posiecki
    posiecki Member Posts: 12
    edited October 2023
    Just wondering... When this unit eventually does get replaced, give me a ballpark cost on four things:
    1.  Asbestos abatement and boiler removal
    2.  New Boiler
    3.  Chimney liner if needed
    4.  HVAC labor

    Thanks 
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,280
    posiecki said:

    Just wondering... When this unit eventually does get replaced, give me a ballpark cost on four things:
    1.  Asbestos abatement and boiler removal
    2.  New Boiler
    3.  Chimney liner if needed
    4.  HVAC labor

    Thanks 

    Pricing is a regional thing. There is no way of telling from a computer screen.
  • posiecki
    posiecki Member Posts: 12
    Well my heating guy came today and we switched out the thermopile.  Didn't light.  So I decided to clang on the LWC and it lit.  I drained a couple of quarts off the system and a bunch of junk came out.  I refilled and turned the thermostat up.  There was a 45 second delay or so, but it lit on its own.  I drain the system of a couple of quarts each month anyway and refill.  I'll monitor a few cycles over the weekend and see if I'm out of the woods. 
  • leonz
    leonz Member Posts: 1,337
    edited October 2023
    It sounds like your low water cut off needs to be replaced or cleaned.

    I will get yelled at for saying this, but if and when you decide to replace this steam boiler you can always
    install a small coal fired stoker steam boiler with a gas burner, a drop header, auto feeder and 2 low water cut offs and it will add value to the home as it obviously used coal to heat the home in the past.



    CLamb
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,841
    edited October 2023
    that LWCO should be blown down weekly,
    But do it daily this week,
    do it while the burner is firing, and as the water drops out, and the LWCO clicks, the Burner MUST shut off,
    If it does NOT, shut the Burner off, then disable/shut off your boiler until the LWCO is replaced for new.
    known to beat dead horses
    EBEBRATT-EdbburdSuperTech
  • posiecki
    posiecki Member Posts: 12
    Can I refill the system while the boiler is hot?  I thought cold and hot shouldn't mix. 
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,841
    how empty is empty?
    are you seeing water in the siteglass?
    I will trickle fill into my hot boiler just to bring the site glass up to midway,
    trickle, barely an open valve,
    you do not want to fast fill into a hot boiler,
    and you DO NOT want to fill into a hot dry boiler,
    known to beat dead horses
    EBEBRATT-Ed
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,388
    @posiecki

    What @neilc posted
  • posiecki
    posiecki Member Posts: 12
    I'm talking a quart or so. 
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,841
    barely crack the feed valve open and let it trickle in
    known to beat dead horses
  • posiecki
    posiecki Member Posts: 12
    Thanks everyone for your assistance in helping me troubleshoot my system.  It's up and running again. 
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,836
    did they test the thermopile or did they just replace it because there is a procedure to test it and it won't produce enough current if it isn't in the pilot flame correctly or the pilot flame is not burning right even if it hasn't worn out.
  • posiecki
    posiecki Member Posts: 12
    They did.  Working as expected.