Innovative thinkers - I need your opinions.

MikeAmann

Somewhat unrelated to heating, but please bear with me. I will try to keep this brief.
My air compressor pump seized again. It is a v-twin 5HP single stage, so the 2 cylinders are in parallel. Splash lubricated. The first time it failed, a dipper "finger" came unattached from one of the connecting rods. Now it seized again with only about 50 hours of runtime since the last time. The dipper fingers are both still attached, so this is an inadequate lubrication problem.








Notice the oil sight glass gauge, the drain plug, and how little oil the crankcase holds (16 oz). The dippers barely pick up any oil.




I have spent the last 2 days on the internet grabbing images of similar pumps and nearly all of the other brands have the sight gauge located higher up in the crankcase and some hold 4X the amount of oil.






I was thinking of adapting a pump from an oil burner to spray oil down onto the connecting rods, but that might be a little extreme. I saw a youtube video of a guy that turned a similar air compressor pump into an engine and he used a chainsaw oil pump for lubricating the camshafts, so that could be a better choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2MxVKE_HsA







I am going to drill and tap for a fitting in the top of the crankcase directly above the connecting rods to drip or spray additional oil there.




Whether I add an external oil pump or not, I think that simply filling the crankcase up to the top of the sight glass might be all that is needed to solve this problem. That would give another 3/8 to 1/2 inch of oil to dip into, most likely more than doubling the amount of splash lubrication. Before the first failure, the crankcase was filled to about 3/4 full on the sight gauge. After the rebuild, I had the oil level set dead center on the bullseye. That slightly lower oil level might be all that was needed to seize the pump this time.

Okay, let's hear opinions from the smart people on this forum. If you think that an additional oil pump is needed, what would you use?

GroundUp

We had what I believe was that exact same compressor in the shop at a place I used to work and it suffered the same fate in about a year. We decided to add an additional 1/2 quart of oil above the bullseye after the rebuild, and as far as I know it's still running every day 15 years later.

hot_rod

by the blue color is it a Quincey? The manufacturer should know if the issue?You using compressor oil?

I’d  add a bit more oil also.

Jamie Hall

I've never been keen on splash lube systems, but they can work -- if there is enough oil. If it were mine, I'd figure out just how high the oil level can be before the rods or balances hit it -- which you don't want -- and drop the oil level half an inch or so and run with that. Also -- although I'm sure you've done this -- verify the installation of the dippers on the rods. There may be two orientations -- and one of them will get good lubrication, while the other won't get any to speak of.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Sight glass looks a little low. I would fill it to the top of the glass and see if it pumps oil with the air. It might pump a very small amount which is ok.

Quincy's always had oil pumps. We used both Quincy's and Curtis compressors (Curtis was splash lubricated) on the air atomizing burners we used to install and they were both good.

What brand is that compressor or is it some China knock off? (Which is what I suspect)

mattmia2

What did you do to the crankshaft journal to remove the bearing material that transferred to the journal when the rod failed? If it failed at the crankpin you need to at very least machine it undersize and use an undersized rod to remove the bearing material from the crankshaft.

If it were mine and i was going to use it for hundreds of hours i'd probably just buy a better pump, campbel hausefeld stuff isn't great.

MikeAmann

Thank you guys. I'm so glad that I analyzed this correctly. I always thought that the sight glass was located too low.
Brand is Campbell-Hausfeld, but if you look closely, this a pump made in China by Fusheng. The symbol of the triangle with the FS in it is their logo.




CH claims that this pump was designed to last 10,000 hours. EXTREME DUTY my @ss! I want my remaining 9700 hours! No support from CH and all parts are already discontinued. The replacement connecting rods that I bought 4.5 years ago came directly from China.
The dippers are on correctly. If they were backwards, they wouldn't touch the oil at all. And YES, I am using compressor oil. This last fill was Royal Purple Synthetic. I can raise the oil level by 1/2" and the crank counterweight and rods will not touch it. I will fill right up to the bottom of the 2 lower bolts in the front cover (top of the sight glass). I have the good original connecting rod from the first rebuild. Even though only 1 rod failed, I replaced the pair.



I used a Norbide dressing stone to remove the aluminum from the journal and then I polished it with Scotchbrite. I just rubbed that stone over the aluminum and as soon as it was removed, the stone just glided on the journal without removing any more material. I am debating whether or not to do the emery and rope polishing trick because the journal looks perfect right now. The first time it was the right cylinder, this time it was the left.

109A_5

Hello @MikeAmann,

Look at the compressor in this video. The splash lubrication dip "finger" on yours looks a bit thin (little splash) and there is only one and it looks like there could be two. Looks like the manufacture of your pump took a rather good proven design and screwed it up. 250 and 50 hours before a failure is pitiful, it probably would have lasted only a week or two if used at a body shop.

Looks like the oil level would be significantly higher in the compressor in the video.

https://youtu.be/mscTC32tCBg

MikeAmann

What I don't like about the pump in the video is that both ends of the crankshaft are not supported by a roller bearing. At least mine is.

I agree that the dippers on mine are miniscule, but they work. I thought about adding a little extra metal to the tips to grab a bit more oil, but with my luck that would probably go against me in some other way.
Both rods have the dippers, one was obstructed in the picture.
Maybe Campbell-Hausfeld meant 10,000 hours from the minute the unit was boxed - not pump run time. That's 417 days, about 14 months.





I just finished drilling and tapping for that brass bushing for additional oiling if I decide to add it in the future. And I did polish the journal with crocus cloth. Hopefully I can get some gasket material tomorrow.

WMno57

When you put it back together, I suggest an assembly lube on all surfaces that rub.
http://www.valco-cp.com/GelLube.htm
Campbell Hausfeld recommends filling with Mobil1 10w30 motor oil. That has detergents, but no viscosity index improvers. I think people make too big of a deal of which oil to use, but M1 10w30 is widely available and reasonably priced so why not? I would tilt it and overfill a little.
https://www.campbellhausfeld.com/how-to-change-air-compressor-oil.html
The less time you spend on getting this back together, the more time you can spend searching for a full pressure lube pump like a Quincy or Saylor-Beall. You definitely have the skills to rebuild one of those.
https://www.saylor-beall.com/

mattmia2

It seems like if the problem was lack of lubrication it would have shown up at the piston on the cylinder or the wrist pin. Maybe it is something that is happening on startup after a period of disuse and running it unloaded for a moment when it hasn't been used for a while would get the surfaces lubricated before they are subject to load.

WMno57

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/auto-care/all-about-oil/ask-our-auto-experts/oil-film-strength-of-mobil-1-compared-with-royal-purple

leonz

It is not worth saving,

As much as I despise home despot they are selling the Ingersoll Rand single phase 60 gallon reciprocating air compressor for $1,548.43.

You would be able to save the existing tank and tie it in with the IR air compressors tank with a couple of hydraulic fittings and 2 wire hydraulic hose. You would want to keep the existing relief valve on the old tank in any case.

Intplm.

Or scrap the entire thing. sadly it might just be the best thing to do considering the cost involved.

WMno57

The video of Jomari building his engine is great! That guy has some serious skills.

MikeAmann

@WMno57 I have a case of Royal Purple Synthetic Synfilm Recip. 100 Reciprocating Compressor Oil.

@mattmia2 The pistons and cylinders actually look perfect. And what you said about a "dry" startup after a period of sitting makes sense. That's the reason why I am considering added external oil to drip/spray down onto the connecting rods. A chainsaw oil pump is less than ten bucks.



https://www.google.com/search?q=chainsaw+oil+pump&client=avast-a-1&sa=X&sca_esv=571940854&biw=1280&bih=875&tbm=shop&tbs=p_ord:p&ei=3TYkZbO0Np6p5NoPr6-N-Ao&ved=0ahUKEwjzls2xvemBAxWeFFkFHa9XA68Quw0IywkoAg

@leonz @Intplm. It IS worth saving because at this point I have nothing to lose. A new pump is $600 but I paid $800 for the whole compressor in 2009. CH's new version of the one I have is now going for $1700, which I would never pay. Think about it - most of the compressors in use are using splash lubrication. This pump has a design flaw.... they drilled the sight glass too low. Fill it higher and problem solved. This is only going to cost me a sheet of gasket material to get this compressor running again. See what GroundUp said:

October 8
We had what I believe was that exact same compressor in the shop at a place I used to work and it suffered the same fate in about a year. We decided to add an additional 1/2 quart of oil above the bullseye after the rebuild, and as far as I know it's still running every day 15 years later.

ratio

Maybe just a replacement compressor? I've bought stuff from surpluscenter.com without ill effects, they have a selection of (no doubt Chinesium) compressors: https://www.surpluscenter.com/Air-Pneumatics/Air-Compressors-Vacuum-Pumps/Belt-Driven-Compressors/. At least that outta reset your 300 hour clock.

neilc

on a limb here,

any chance the scooper splasher is install reverse,
or that the whole compressor is spinning reverse?

that scooper looks like it some how pressurizes the rod end, (that lil hole there),
if the scoop, or rotation is reverse, then you're splashing away from the journal, not injecting,

I'm getting off this limb before something snaps,

MikeAmann

@ratio I already checked Surplus Center. This is the pump I would have chosen before I took mine apart to see what actually happened: https://eatoncompressor.com/product/5hp-air-compressor-pump-2cylinder-32-cfm/

@neilc Don't worry. I listen to ALL suggestions. Sometimes a new eye is what's needed to see a problem. The dippers are correct as well as the motor/pump rotation.

NAPA was open today so I got some gasket material. I completed the future supplemental oil fitting. I will spend the rest of the night putting this thing back together. RED Loctite on that dipper screw.
Fingers crossed.....

MikeAmann

The pump is back together. It's now 4:40 am. That's enough for tonight. I can finish tomorrow. This will give the Permatex a chance to cure. I haven't eaten all day.










The white rod is in the bottom bolt hole of the front cover. The bottom of that rod will be the new higher oil level. Most of the dippers will now be grabbing oil. And the connecting rods and the crank counterweight are safely above that level, so they won't be beating air into the oil.

Look at the scale. The center of the bullseye is at 1". The top of the sight glass is 1.5". If this doesn't give enough splash lubrication, then nothing will.

mattmia2

is there an extra oil ring on that piston?

MikeAmann

mattmia2 said:

is there an extra oil ring on that piston?

You mean at the bottom? YES.
Up top is 2 compression rings and the oil rings.

MikeAmann

It's running. So far, so good.






Notice the date that I changed the oil.... 1/18/23. That's the first time this pump has seen Royal Purple.
Is it garbage? I doubt it. Funny, up until then this pump ran on the Harbor Freight conventional compressor oil.
It appears that there is a critical oil level where things will fail.... and that happens to be the center of the bullseye on the sight glass.

The air going to the tank is HOT. It aIways was. might add an aftercooler like this guy did (FF to the 20 min point). Try not to laugh too hard. Pay attention to the results. https://youtu.be/YD1dNpelSpg?feature=shared

mattmia2

The air is going to be hot, that is what happens when you increase the pressure. In most cases there is lots of surface of the tank to cool it.

That really should not be a critical lubrication application, conventional nondetergent compressor oil should be fine although there may be an additive that sticks around when it isn't used for a few days/weeks/months to protect the surfaces on startup that could be worth it. oh and if it is used when it has been very cold out full synthetic oil stays fluid when conventional oil doesn't flow well but that is only if it is sub 0 f.

MikeAmann

The compressor has spent most of its life in my unheated garage using conventional compressor oil.
I moved it into Mom's basement (better environment), changed the oil to synthetic (better oil), and I get rewarded with problems.
Go figure! That's the story of my life.