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Spud removal, cut the thread. Am I sunk?

Comments

  • realliveplumber
    realliveplumber Member Posts: 349
    That looks pretty deep.

    I would clean and dry the threads, and try expando.

    If that doesnt work, an anaerobic gel.
    StuckOnSteamttekushan_3
  • steamaffinity
    steamaffinity Member Posts: 4
    Try the bock as specified in this video along with lampwick, teflon tape and dope. Also another thing is to give time to cure as it might not be able to take pressure immediately. 

    StuckOnSteam
  • dko
    dko Member Posts: 557
    I did the same on one of my steam radiators at home long time ago. epoxied the cut area, re-tapped after it hardened. Used fasseal ats anaerobic sealant and going strong 6 years.
    mattmia2StuckOnSteamZmanttekushan_3
  • StuckOnSteam
    StuckOnSteam Member Posts: 11
    mattmia2 said:
    Steam or hot water? Steam is a lot less pressure. Lampwick and dope or even rtv might get you there. You have another chance to cut out and replace the bushing too.
    Steam. Thank you very much for the help! 
  • StuckOnSteam
    StuckOnSteam Member Posts: 11
    On a side note, is it possible that a replacement nut and tailpiece has differing sizes? The radiator connection appears to be 1” and the mating nut seems to be 1.25”. 
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,226
    That's a bushing. Keep cutting and get that out too. Start fresh in the radiator threads.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
    Classes
    mattmia2MikeAmannDan FoleyChrisJ
  • StuckOnSteam
    StuckOnSteam Member Posts: 11
    On a side note, is it possible that a replacement nut and tailpiece has differing sizes? The radiator connection appears to be 1” and the mating nut seems to be 1.25”. 
    To clarify, my current setup seems to have differing sizes 
  • StuckOnSteam
    StuckOnSteam Member Posts: 11
    JohnNY said:
    That's a bushing. Keep cutting and get that out too. Start fresh in the radiator threads.
    I don’t know if I can be trusted after this fiasco. Thanks for the help! 
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,226
    That's not 1.25" it's a proprietary thread and not a pipe size. Yeah, you may be better served having a seasoned plumber take care of this.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
    Classes
    StuckOnSteammattmia2Dan Foley
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,410
    The spud is matched to the valve, if you replace the spud you have to replace the valve with the one that came with it. They aren't standardized.
    StuckOnSteamSTEAM DOCTORttekushan_3
  • StuckOnSteam
    StuckOnSteam Member Posts: 11
    mattmia2 said:
    The spud is matched to the valve, if you replace the spud you have to replace the valve with the one that came with it. They aren't standardized.
    Ah, I see. That makes sense. Was hoping to replace the tail and nut only, but this makes much more sense 
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,697
    On steam, with Lamp wick and Permatex its usually fine. On Hot water heating also usually works.  A deep cut on domestic Water thread, can be a problem because you can't use Permatex on drinking water. That being said, we were on on overnight tie  in at a very Large New York Post Office hub about 15 years ago.  I plunged too deep in to a 3" Brass Female thread..Lamp wick, tons of  White Teflon Paste on male & female (don't tell the plumbing code police) worked in the  threads and some good Teflon tape where make thread meets the face of female thread, killed it!  Never leaked!   As Johnny NY says, you can also remove that decorative bushing.  Mad Dog 🐕 
    StuckOnSteamdko
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
    I use Permatex high temp gasket maker to seal pipe thread cuts.
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

    Mad Dog_2ChrisJttekushan_3dko
  • We've done this a bunch of times, and it's never as bad as it looks. I would put some extra dope in the cut, then dope both ends real good, and give it a shot before getting too carried away with other remedies. It will likely be fine. Next option would be to remove the bushing (though those old bushings are cast and very difficult to sawzall through, requiring many blades), and change the complete valve.
    New England SteamWorks
    Service, Installation, & Restoration of Steam Heating Systems
    newenglandsteamworks.com
    Mad Dog_2
  • CTETeach
    CTETeach Member Posts: 7
    Low pressure steam you can probably get away with a good pipe dope and several wraps with high quality Teflon tape. Lamp wicking may also be helpful but may not be necessary.
    Good luck, next time don't use a Sawzall use a hacksaw blade and handle.
  • retiredguy
    retiredguy Member Posts: 880
    Looking at the picture you posted, it does not look as bad as you assume it is. If you have cut too deeply into the first bushing you may have to go to the next bushing but be very careful. Any time you are cutting out a bushing like yours, first use a sawzall for the first 90% of the cut then switch to a hand held saw similar to one used for drywall with a short metal cutting blade. You can feel when you cut through the bushing and into the next thread. Cut a second slot about 1/8 of the way around the bushing and knock out the piece between the cuts. You can use an ice pick or a small chisel for this. Then slowly and carefully begin to crush the remaining piece. Once it starts to move you can tap out the remaining piece just as you would turn it out normally. This cutting takes a delicate hand so do not be in a hurry to complete a task. Once you do this a few time it becomes easy but time consuming. You could always call in someone that has done this many times to do the job.
    Larry Weingarten
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,442

    We've done this a bunch of times, and it's never as bad as it looks. I would put some extra dope in the cut, then dope both ends real good, and give it a shot before getting too carried away with other remedies. It will likely be fine. Next option would be to remove the bushing (though those old bushings are cast and very difficult to sawzall through, requiring many blades), and change the complete valve.


    These don't seem to mind.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    dkojohn walsh_2
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,314
    edited September 2023
    If anyone sees a bushing like this check to confirm the large thread is right-hand before going any further. It is old enough to have left hand threads. The bushing could be drilled and tapped to 1 1/4" if the cut goes past the bottom of the thread groove. Then an 1 1/4" x 1" bushing is used for the new spud.  Every other suggestion for filling with a sealant is a "go with God " idea that may work but may also fail at the worst possible time. If the bushing is right-hand on both sides I would replace it. Use a hand held jab saw with a Lennox bimetal blade 18 tpi to cut it out. You will be less likely to over cut. 
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    ChrisJ
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,738
    Cut it out, new bushing. Just don't cut so far in this time!
  • fueloilrich631
    fueloilrich631 Member Posts: 16
    dko said:

    I did the same on one of my steam radiators at home long time ago. epoxied the cut area, re-tapped after it hardened. Used fasseal ats anaerobic sealant and going strong 6 years.

    I have done this as well, in regards to epoxy (JB Weld) applied pro dope and teflon tape to male thread. Worked like a charm.
    dkoethicalpaul
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,697
    Hacksaw blade takes too long, but I will use them on a 1/2" Brass Trap spud. You can't worry about it too much except if its in an 8" Domestic Water Tank bulkhead fitting... then you gots a problem.  Fix?  I silver brazed it and rat-tail filed the thread root back in. Lots of Real-Tuff Teflon paste and quick wick    Thank God that worked!!!    Mad Dog 🐕 
  • mvickers
    mvickers Member Posts: 30
    How about a large pipe nipple extractor?
  • AdmiralYoda
    AdmiralYoda Member Posts: 618
    The pro's here have given you great advice on how to professionally repair it. As a homeowner here, I'd try the simplest fix first and see what happens.

    Clean that cut out as best you can and smear some high temp Permatex RTV in there. Wrap the new spud with plenty of good thick Teflon tape and apply plenty of dope to the radiator threads and get it plenty tight. Let it sit for a couple days before you fire up the system.

    In automotive engine applications Permatex RTV is used all over the place in higher temperatures and much higher pressures...so there is hope!

    If it works...great! Might last another 50 years or could last 5 months or 5 days, who knows. If it does fail, use some of the advice above. My next shot would be to fill the cut with epoxy and then run a tap through the threads to clean it up. If that doesn't work....replace the bushing.

    BTW...if you ever do this again... turn the radiator upside down first when you cut the spud. That way if you cut the threads it will be on the top of the spud. If a leak forms it will at least only be steam and condensate wont drip out, assuming it is single pipe. Your cut is more towards the side though so I doubt you'd have condensate hitting it...which is good.
  • Stet
    Stet Member Posts: 37
    Fill the threads with permatex. let it harden. The retap the threads. Do yourself a favor and get a new valve with union. Use a good thread sealant (true blue works well) All should be fine!
    Mad Dog_2
  • Grallert
    Grallert Member Posts: 637
    Has it been said already? you'll to replace that valve as well as repair/replace that bush. I'd repair it because that's a nice looking bushing. Clean it really really well and smear some JB Weld or equivalent To just shy of the tops of the threads let set and run a tap through it. Tape and permatex to finish. That said, no one will notice if you replace the bushing like any sane person would do.
    Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager,teacher and dog walker
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,793
    "Expando" for the pipe threads and that should do it.
    hot_rod