Boiler Short cycling LWCO, Weird issue!!

steamaffinity

Hi all, Trying to resolve an issue with a steam Boiler. Trying to get this baby up and running for the heating season. Helping a brother in need, They bought this house and do not know the previous history of it. 

American Standard Steam Boiler
1 pipe - Counter flow
3 Risers

The boiler is short cycling because of LWCO. The burn cycle is extremely short, 2.5 minutes, The water level drops and LWCO s triggere and boiler cools down. But condensate comes back and within 1.5 minutes boiler cycle starts again. Timing is consistent, Observed it over 5 cycles.

My initial analysis was that wet returns were clogged, But returns were newly piped, Exactly the same as old set up. I don’t have the current pictures of NBP, But have the old pics. I can get more pictures when I go there next time.other cause might be oils and needs skimming. But the water doesn’t surge violently( or alteast not to me) 

Burn cycle - 2.5 minutes 

https://youtu.be/h3ocf2ceRyY?si=FCyYxgSUvTbIjCOv

Off cycle - 1.5 minutes 

https://youtu.be/-B_BplR5yGM?si=ohHaE0yNtCduDedu

I can try skimming, But do you guys think that might be the issue OR the return piping may be clogged further up the line. I have tried to look at the pitch of the returns and Looks okay to me, Tried increasing the pitch, But no change. 

Would appreciate any help, Let me know if you need any further information.

Attached are the pics before we replaced the wet returns. Just to get an idea regarding the mains.

Mad Dog_2

Your water quality is poor.  Do you see all that "overflowing" water in to the top of the Guage glass?  Making Wet Steam.  I don't know your skill level, but start by dumping all the water a few times out of different drains at the bottom.  M.ake sure power is OFF to the boiler...Mad Dog 🐕 

Mad Dog_2

That #67 Low Water Cutoff ain't seen no lovin in years!.. That's your last ditched runaway train 🚆 brake for the boiler. Its critical that it kills power to the burner when the float drops.  Where are you located? Try The Find a Contractor Search feature here.  Working on ANY boiler is not a Hobby...especially an old, crusty steam boiler.  Mad Dog 🐕 

BobC

That old boiler is not piped right, no boiler header - new boilers are more fussy about near boiler piping. Take a good look at the install manuals piping diagram. You can find manuals online if you don't have one.

First thing is to flush the boiler a few times and then a nice long skimming to get the oil out of the boiler water. Having good clean boiler water can help a lot. Also make sure pressure is set to 2PSI or less, what kind of pressure control is that?. having a pro go through the boiler would be a good idea, you have to make sure the safeties are all ok and that combustion is good. Thge sightglass should be cleaned or replaced and check that the top and bottom valves are clear it's seeing the boiler water level

If you want to DIY it get a copy of The Lost Art of Steam Heat at Amazon, best guide ever. Make sure the pigtail under the pressure control is clean and cleaning out the float in that LWCO would be a good idea - there are kits available. Make sure the LWCO shuts the boiler down on low water. If the float is not free to move that can cause problems and is unsafe.

https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Art-Steam-Heating/dp/0996477241/ref=sr_1_1?crid=18AOK5AVQMQ2G&keywords=lost+art+of+steam+heating&qid=1695643945&sprefix=lost+art+of,aps,81&sr=8-1

Take pics of the boiler, stand back a bit so we can see how piping around the boiler is tied into it.

Bob

steamaffinity

Thanks Bob and Mad dog_2 for your super quick response. Appreciate it.

Wanted to clarify few things. I do not know all the stuff but  did my homework by reading most of the previous comments on the forum before we started working on it. Looking to learn more about this. These are all the things we did before we even fired up the boiler. 

1. The Steam Boiler is powered OFF and the gas supply is turned off. We switched it on for testing. 

2. We serviced the  LWCO, including washer kit, Dirt cap and cleaned internal float. The float is working correctly and trips off the boiler when the water level falls.
3. the pressuretrol is the original American Standard and had been with the boiler since beginning. I cleaned the pig tail and set the pressuretrol at 0 and differential at 1.5.
4. I also installed a 0-5 pressure guage , because the burn cycle is only 2.5 minutes, Its bearly registers any pressure on the guage.
5. Also filled and drained the steam boiler 3 times, and used 3 steam master tablets before I started making steam. 

6. I installed a ball valve on the wet returns and flushed it. 

6. Removed and cleaned the sight glass, Including the valves and openings. 

Please let me know if I have missed any. I will report back with detailed pics on near Boiler piping. 

@Mad_dog_2 I did notice that Wet water on top of sight glass. It’s unusual and my other steam boiler doesn’t do that. Is water quality the maim reason for that?

Definitely agree on bringing in the Pros, But since we are tight on budget, Want to try out few things, If not that’s our only option. Definitely few things that I should be doing.

1. skim the boiler.
2. See if I can wash the inside of the boiler. 

3. drain and refill till the water becomes clean.

Mad Dog_2

Yes dirty, oily boiler water.  You seem like you've got a pretty good handle on..l
Just don't get hurt.  Mad Dog 🐕 

steamaffinity

Update:

As per your suggestion, Did a good clean of the steam boiler. Was able to make a wand and clean the interiors coming in from the top via the pressure relief opening. Water quality is much better. 

Fired up the boiler, Now there is no rapid fluctuation of the water level. Also the Lwco water did not kick in. The water level does drop gradually, But not enough to kick in the  LWCO. This might be because of slow return from the rads. Ran the boiler for almost 1hr 20 minutes. So Looks like we are past Initial troubles.

As for the near boiler piping, Please find the pics

Also the video is attached. ( Sorry mispoke mins as risers)

https://youtube.com/shorts/mczS3ZqPyC0?si=ISWP6SzeuGjuNnbJ

Now need some help with improving and balancing the system. 

I. This Boiler heats 2nd and 3rd floor. There are 6 radiators on 3 supply mains. The Burn cycle is taking really long time( 1 hr 10 minutes for all the radiators to heat and  the system to start building up pressure). Is adding more venting the only solution. Have 1 gorton #1 as the vent and it’s at the last leg of return piping. Have the pressure at 0.5 and 1.5 differential.

2. My near boiler piping( the. Equalizer) is not as per manual. The only thing going for me is that it’s an old boiler, Pre 1970 so it’s a bit bigger, so is there anything I can do to improve and generate dry Steam better? I have put the water level just above halfway mark, and that’s the only lever I can pull without repiping the near boiler piping.

Appreciate all your help, Jus don’t want to give up on this nice type of heating, So putting in all the efforts in making it efficient. 

Jamie Hall

Ah. Not a probe type LWCO. That's a float type. Using the blue handle valve on the pipe from the bottom of the LWCO, blow it down -- open the handle full and let water flow. Then close it and repeat. And do it again. Until the water coming out is reasonably clean (doesn't have to be drinkable -- but water, not sludgy). Refill the boiler to where you want it to run.

That type of LWCO is very reliable -- if kept blown down. However, it is a float, and when the water level is right at the actuation point, even very small changes in water level in the boiler -- which are inevitable -- will make it bob up and down, and, correspondingly, the contacts will open and close.

Note also my comment above on the VXT -- set it to feed a gallon, rather than "LWCO". Both it and your LWCO will be much happier.

clammy

That boiler is quite old and improperly piped to boot . I would suggest that you start your search for replacement that boiler is on borrowed time it may last a few years more or days who knows but its money worth has been re couped many times over . Peace and good luck clammy

ethicalpaul

The way your boiler is piped, any water problem will tend to result in water getting shoveled into your main steam line (as you have seen).

This is commonly called "wet steam" but the reality is that it's just gallons of water (as you saw with your lwco cutting out) leaving your boiler when it shouldn't. I put sight glasses on my boiler and purposely poisoned its water with oil to illustrate this here: https://youtu.be/jvt8qxBaRJU

Can you recognize the difference between what you have and what the manual shows? Yours has no horizontal section that would allow the steam to separate from the water. Some people call this a "vertical header" but I prefer to call it a "useless header".

See this excellent document from Peerless that explains how things should be:

https://www.peerlessboilers.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/OnePipeSteam.pdf