Buying fittings online

geo_1111

My supplier came back with a price 1/3 higher than buyfittingsonline.com and a cursory look at the quote listed imported in the description. I like my local businesses as I am in that category as well, that said overpaying is not in my definition of loyal patronage. Bottom line, my near boiler 2.5" nipples and fittings will be purchased online if I get positive Feedback. Thank you. 

Mad Dog_2

This is American Capitalism.".The Worst form of Capitalism (to borrow from Churchill) but better than all the rest.'
We all make consumer choices all day long. The Mom & Pop Brick & mortar stores often have higher Overhead & costs.  They also hire local people and atleast 1 or two really smart industry countermen that will have great, practical information for you.  Thats costs more $$$.   You're not going to get that "online."  Who doesn't like a deal?  But what is that costing Small-town USA 🇺🇸??
Empty stores on main Street, "Broken Windows"  Crime, Decline...

We are all free to do what we want with our $$$.  I WILL pay more, For Local Made, American made.  When my main street is a ghost town, it won't be because of me.  Thats the way I feel.  Mad Dog 🐕 

KC_Jones

I have used www.supplyhouse.com many times. What people fail to realize, it is a local supply house, with an owner who was shrewd enough to realize the potential of the internet and exploited it. Their customer service is top notch, they fulfill orders quickly and I've had stuff as soon as next day without a premium of next day shipping. I genuinely can't say enough good things about them.

I too went through what you did when replacing my steam boiler, except the difference was a 40% premium on everything I wanted and they changed some of my items to something different. To be clear on that second point, I had sent them an itemized list, with manufacturers name and part number and they still came back with incorrect items. That alone sent my confidence into the proverbial crapper and combined with the premium price they wanted I took my business to the online retailer. I feel it's important to patronize a well run business. I don't patronize a business just because they are local, but will patronize them if they are well run.

All that said I know nothing about the website you mentioned.

ChrisJ

99% of my fittings come from Supplyhouse.com.
All of the local places around me charge more for Chinese fittings then Supplyhouse.com does for Ward.


@Mad Dog_2 Small town USA? Aren't you in NYC?
If mom and pop shops can't compete with online stores, then they can't compete in todays world. That's literally how capitalism works.

By me buying online, I'm supporting those who ship the products to me as well as those who work at the places like Supplyhouse. I'm also buying Ward fittings which wouldn't be the case if I bought from a local place.

tim smith

It's a shame that our local supply houses are struggling to compete. Supplyhouse is a formidable competitor. They do a great job. We still mostly buy our pipe, equipment and fittings locally even though Supplyhouse can be 20 to 30% less. But on some things they are not. We appreciate the knowledge our local suppliers have had and some still do. But that is slowly fading away like some of us are. There is a fine balance between local support and being competitive. I would like to say buy local only but it's not realistic in this day and.age. shipping is so fast and simple. Not only is.it free.shipping, you don't spend six dollars running to supply house. In the end the.customer pays bit less, you get more work done and you.are more.profitable with more customers warm. Hard to argue.

geo_1111

Thank you all for the feedback.

Mad Dog_2

Chris...I Live 1/2 a mile from the City line, just inside Nassau County.  Work in the 5 Boros of NYC & All the Way To Montauk and up in to The Hudson Valley  during a typical week. 

Chris,, I've seen the Mom & Pop Supply houses  in this great Megalopolis disappear over the last 30 years.  Some deserved to..But most were victim to The Average American that SALIVATES over a "deal."  Price shopping is a Religion to them.  These types do not care about buying local, Made In USA, or supporting The Backbone of The American Economic Miracle of the last 200 years...The Small Business.  I am very careful about how I spend my personal and Business $$$. I always give my two mom & pop supply houses first crack...and they always come Through .   Home Depot, Lowes, Supply House. Com & Pex Supply are NOT going to open at 7am on a Sunday freezing 😫 February Winter morning, so I can get our clients heat. The Economic and intrinsic value in that??  PRICELESS!!

How Capitalism works?  Ha ha 😂 🤣 😆 😄 😅   Anytime you'd like to be edified on Keynesian Theory vis-a-vis Milton Friedman and Frederich Hayek's Road To Serfdom, PM me.  PEACE ON EARTH...Mad Dog 

ChrisJ

Mad Dog_2 said:

Chris...I Live 1/2 a mile from the City line, just inside Nassau County.  Work in the 5 Boros of NYC & All the Way To Montauk and up in to The Hudson Valley  during a typical week. 

Chris,, I've seen the Mom & Pop Supply houses  in this great Megalopolis disappear over the last 30 years.  Some deserved to..But most were victim to The Average American that SALIVATES over a "deal."  Price shopping is a Religion to them.  These types do not care about buying local, Made In USA, or supporting The Backbone of The American Economic Miracle of the last 200 years...The Small Business.  I am very careful about how I spend my personal and Business $$$. I always give my two mom & pop supply houses first crack...and they always come Through .   Home Depot, Lowes, Supply House. Com & Pex Supply are NOT going to open at 7am on a Sunday freezing 😫 February Winter morning, so I can get our clients heat. The Economic and intrinsic value in that??  PRICELESS!!

How Capitalism works?  Ha ha 😂 🤣 😆 😄 😅   Anytime you'd like to be edified on Keynesian Theory vis-a-vis Milton Friedman and Frederich Hayek's Road To Serfdom, PM me.  PEACE ON EARTH...Mad Dog 

Mad, my PM is open any time you want to send a message, you know that.

STEVEusaPA

I have no problem getting USA steel pipe & USA (Ward) fittings from my local Betz supply house. And cheaper than supplyhouse.com. They are even cheaper for all Viega press fittings too.

I use supplyhouse.com when I can't get it locally, specifically all things Caleffi, and tools. I also use TruTechTools. I'm not looking for price match from local suppliers, just close enough. If it's way out of whack, I'll buy it online. I told this story somewhere (maybe a FB group) how I was able to purchase a Rothenberger pipe bender from Italy for around $2700 which would've cost over $5400 here, because of the multiple hands it has to go thru, marking it up all the way. It took about a month, but that's a lot of money.
Also, if I need a lot of different things for a job which may require me to run to 4 places, I'll order all of it from sh.com and get it delivered to my door.
I even bought my Ridgid Press tool locally, where they fix/repair them, and it too was cheaper than anything I could find online.
So it is doable to stay local

mattmia2

STEVEusaPA said:

I told this story somewhere (maybe a FB group) how I was able to purchase a Rothenberger pipe bender from Italy for around $2700 which would've cost over $5400 here, because of the multiple hands it has to go thru, marking it up all the way. It took about a month, but that's a lot of money.
Also, if I need a lot of different things for a job which may require me to run to 4 places, I'll order all of it from sh.com and get it delivered to my door.

I have been looking at Mecc Alte alternator heads and it seems like the European pricing is far less than it is here. I thought it was a scam but looking at how you are looking at it, it might just be a bunch of middlepeople with their hand in the transaction. Of course it might be difficult to ship something like that from Europe.

The convenience of being able to order all of it at 2 am from 4 different places is something the local supply houses need to work on. They'll deliver but online ordering is not something most are great at. Perhaps they should form/extend a cooperative for the online ordering kind of like true value and ace does for distribution to hardware stores.

BTW I believe supplyhouse.com started out as an online electrical supply and found there was a better market for heating and plumbing specialties.

ChrisJ

@mattmia2 For what it's worth, the natural gas portable generator I built uses a 12KW Mecc Alte alternator. I think an MR2 - 200/2 which is rated 10KW @ 50hz, 12KW @ 60Hz. They claim less than 5% THD. It's a capacitor excited brushless unit, but so far I like it and it has no issues running anything in my house, including the 3 ton A/C. I've also found it's voltage regulation to be perfectly acceptable.



The only thing I did was I removed the two large capacitors from on top of the alternator and relocated them separate in an enclosure where I can easily access them and they're not being cooked by the alternator and engine exhaust.

ethicalpaul

Mad Dog_2 said:

Home Depot, Lowes, Supply House. Com & Pex Supply are NOT going to open at 7am on a Sunday freezing 😫 February Winter morning, so I can get our clients heat.

Oh yes they are
And they're open until 10pm, staffed by local hardworking folks just like mom and pop

Mad Dog_2

NJ??  Kinda far for me.. Home Depot and Lowes carry A VERY scant selection of heating products and ZERO boilers, Paul. Their plumbing section is no great shakes either.  For a DIYer, hobbyist,  tinkerer, emergency patch thats fine, but doesn't cut the mustard for Professionals that feed our families with our repair and installations.  
I don't know of one legitimate, licensed and insured outfit that uses them except in a dire emergency.  

We have relationships built over decades and in some cases, several generations. Surely you jest that the Home Centers have competent, knowledgeable ( in their aisle's trade ) helpful employees 🙄..
That is laughable!  I call it :Help-yourself-Depot". 

Comparing the "help" you get in those places with an authentic Supply House, whose, owner you see every other time you patronize them, and who knows where your kids are going to College, is apples 🍎  and oranges 🍊 Paul...its Nolo Contendre...Mad Dog 🐕 

Mad Dog_2

C.C., aka "Condescending Chris," Smartest man in the room, take your own advice and take your snarky jabs at me on a PM instead of here at The Wall as has been suggested by The Holohans.   You can't seem to help yourself.   Mad Dog 🐕 

STEAM DOCTOR

Agree with @Mad Dog_2. Only benefit of Home Depot, are the hours (which was @ethicalpaul's point). But there are almost zero heating products,that I would ever buy there. Maybe a thermostat, if really desperate. And I would check for layers of tape (each layer indicates how many times it's been opened or returned 😂😂). Kevin and Richard's, in Williamsburg Brooklyn, is open 24/7/365. For people in this part of the world. Expect to pay close to double but worth it, when needed 

Mad Dog_2

Try Triple Sometimes...but at 2am...they are THERE...boiler, 4" O.S.Y. valves...everything.  Make sure you bring Bobby The Vietnam Vet Coffee and a donut...Been there on Thanksgiving morning...Christmas Day...they have The eye of the tiger 🐅 about service and business.   Mad Dog 🐕 

STEAM DOCTOR

They are very very well stocked. Needed some 4" TP adaptors once. Like 3:00 AM. No problem. They are in a new location now, not far from old location. 

ChrisJ

Mad Dog_2 said:

C.C., aka "Condescending Chris," Smartest man in the room, take your own advice and take your snarky jabs at me on a PM instead of here at The Wall as has been suggested by The Holohans.   You can't seem to help yourself.   Mad Dog 🐕 

With all due respect I don't feel I've had any snarky jabs at you.

DanHolohan

Chris and Mad Dog, please let it go or take it elsewhere. Erin is just getting back from a business trip. She doesn’t need this over the weekend. Thanks for being kind to her. 

Mad Dog_2

Aaron...4" TP adapters..geez..must have cost as much as a Night at Gurney's Inn (Montauk).!  The amazing thing...I'd that they actually stock such parts.  Yes, I prefer the old spot better, larger Counter area...They must have gotten a big break in rent because they said its about the same Sqaure Footage...Mad Dog 🐕 

dko

I can't speak for other areas, but if you're in NYC and find supplyhouse.com cheaper- you're shopping the wrong places. The only thing supplyhouse.com should be able to have one up on the local guys will be in stock inventory- number of skus and being a one stop shop. Price should not be it.

With your everyday items, they are actually considerably more expensive. Even those 2-1/2" fittings mentioned above.. by nearly 20-30%. Chinese fittings at the price of Ward fittings at supplyhouse.com? That's ridiculous and if true - place should deservedly go out of business. Any local guy worth their salt can beat supplyhouse.com Ward prices. I know exactly how much every shop here in NYC pays for Ward including rebates.

If you do business in NYC my recommendation is to find a home at a local shop. Make friends and build a relationship. I have guys coming for over 20+ years. Why? Because I have everything they want and need. Specific brands to oddball fittings. I learn the way they do business, what they like to use, how they like to do things and I cater to it. They never have to worry about stock, pricing, and can find comfort that I'll always do right by them. And anything supplyhouse.com can get, I can get. If they need it sooner than I can get it, sure buy it from supplyhouse.com.

If you're just a DIYer or just buy things once a year, then most likely they won't have exactly what you want. That's where the internet shines.

also- supplyhouse.com started as pexsupply by Josh Meyerowitz- the son who ventured out of the family business Gil Meyerowitz plumbing supply here in Queens (still operating).

Mad Dog_2

Where is your supply house DKO? We're on the same page.  Mad Dog 🐕 

Erin Holohan Haskell

DanHolohan said:

Chris and Mad Dog, please let it go or take it elsewhere. Erin is just getting back from a business trip. She doesn’t need this over the weekend. Thanks for being kind to her. 

Yes, thank you.

Erin Holohan Haskell

In case anyone is curious about the evolution of SupplyHouse.com and the story of the Meyerowitz Family who have been in our industry since 1917:

https://youtu.be/MpCjvXPlOeE?si=6YYvk0zF9ldZO9qD

DanHolohan

Such a beautiful story, and they are great supporters of HeatingHelp. They stepped right up and got behind Dead Men Tales, making it possible. I’m so thankful for that. 

ChrisJ

The thing about Supply house is it's not just about price.

The layout of their website is one of the best.  This is often a complete deal breaker for me. If the website is a pain to deal with I move on.  This is also the case where I work when I deal with suppliers, buying tools etc.

McMaster Carr has I think the best there is but if anyone competes with it, it's Supply house.

There's also the fact that I always get what I ordered.  I don't mean they never make mistakes.  I mean when I order a specific part by a specific manufacturer that's what I get.  Not a knockoff, not a "same thing" it's exactly what I ordered or they fix it 

I also know when there's an issue they fix it without a fight.

They're also very fast with quoting special parts that aren't on their website.

DanHolohan

What I love most about their story is how each generation gave way and listened (however reluctantly) to the wisdom of the next generation. That is unconditional love. 

DanHolohan

It’s Mom and Pop local business gone large. A gorgeous American story. 

jumper

What astounds me is how many businesses maintain poor websites.

Mad Dog_2

I use Supplyhouse quite a bit. They are super professional and accommodating.  Their no questions asked returns on Controls is unheard of.  They also have a superfast turnaround.  Yes, Sandy and The Meyerwitz Family have always been supportive of the betterment of the Plumbing & Heating Industry of Long Island 🏝, and NYC.  Mad Dog 🐕 

hot_rod

Mad Dog_2 said:

Chris...I Live 1/2 a mile from the City line, just inside Nassau County.  Work in the 5 Boros of NYC & All the Way To Montauk and up in to The Hudson Valley  during a typical week. 

Chris,, I've seen the Mom & Pop Supply houses  in this great Megalopolis disappear over the last 30 years.  Some deserved to..But most were victim to The Average American that SALIVATES over a "deal."  Price shopping is a Religion to them.  These types do not care about buying local, Made In USA, or supporting The Backbone of The American Economic Miracle of the last 200 years...The Small Business.  I am very careful about how I spend my personal and Business $$$. I always give my two mom & pop supply houses first crack...and they always come Through .   Home Depot, Lowes, Supply House. Com & Pex Supply are NOT going to open at 7am on a Sunday freezing 😫 February Winter morning, so I can get our clients heat. The Economic and intrinsic value in that??  PRICELESS!!

How Capitalism works?  Ha ha 😂 🤣 😆 😄 😅   Anytime you'd like to be edified on Keynesian Theory vis-a-vis Milton Friedman and Frederich Hayek's Road To Serfdom, PM me.  PEACE ON EARTH...Mad Dog 

Small shops failed because the larger “chain” wholesalers have better buying power. They can weather bad economies better, and probably better access to credit.

If you have mutual fund stocks, you too may be profiting from the large chains😉 

SHT took the Amazon model to the plumbing HVAC supply industry

Oddly a lot of the speciality hardware and fittings, welding supplies, etc  I buy on Amazon come from small shops. Based on the return labels on the boxes.

CLamb

jumper said:

What astounds me is how many businesses maintain poor websites.

Absolutely! There are some 50+ years of research on human-computer interaction yet few designers take advantage of it. The very first step is often ignored. It should be to decide what purpose the website is to serve. Most folks just proceed from, "I want a website". Designers should be familiar with the task the user is trying to accomplish. One retailer I know was wondering why so many people were abandoning orders at the last step on his website. It took me only a couple of minutes to figure out that the shipping costs were unknown to the user until that step. Sorry for the rant.

Jersey2

I'm a DIY, and when I changed my well tank I bought the tank and all the parts from SupplyHouse. Super low prices and free shipping (over a certain price). And fast delivery. I hope they manage properly as they increase in size, most companies that get very large end up wasting money and going out of business like Sears did.

New England SteamWorks

I always find this a disturbing topic, and my thought is that we are in a sweet spot that won't last. Supplyhouse is terrific. (Though their black fittings have been a big mess since Covid, and still not right (but getting there). One thing not mentioned is all the labor saved by not having techs drive to supply houses and waiting at the counter. I have even been invited to several Zoom sessions with the owner, some of his staff, and other contractors. They are really into success.

But local supply houses are great too. The disturbing part is that I just don't see the two of them coexisting for much longer. And it will be a a sadder world when the local guys are gone....

dko

There will always be a greater number of customers wanting material now or the next morning than being able to wait until UPS arrives next day or two.

Guys on the field send material list needed at the end of the day for the next day. The internet shops can have your material by morning? Internet shops can deliver a bundle of pipe to your jobsite the next day? You go to a job to fix a drain and happen to be short a fitting, you tell the customer have to wait a couple days because you need to order it online?

Local supply houses are not going anywhere, they have their place.

Some fields may not need such quick material turnaround - like setting up a boiler install appointment.

For the internet guys to be able to serve local jobs they would have to have local warehouses. Which means they need to become local supply houses.

Then the guys with the best of both worlds will rule... (ferguson, fwwebb, etc..)
they operate multiple websites

brillew63

I use local supply houses and supplyhouse.com, all are in the business to make a buck. convenience and inventory are the name of the game.

mattmia2

New England SteamWorks said:

But local supply houses are great too. The disturbing part is that I just don't see the two of them coexisting for much longer. And it will be a a sadder world when the local guys are gone....

I don't know about your area but here the supply houses and especially the auto parts stores keep getting bought by bigger and bigger chains such that all the previously local stores are owned by a national chain now.

dko

mattmia2 said:

I don't know about your area but here the supply houses and especially the auto parts stores keep getting bought by bigger and bigger chains such that all the previously local stores are owned by a national chain now.

This is very real, Ferguson and FW Webb are really aggressive in the NYC territory right now. Ferguson acquired Bruce Supply and FW Webb is setting up shop right across Maspeth Ferguson as well their other manhattan acquisitions.. They've also poached a bunch of Ferguson employees. Hajoca acquired Green Art but that's more on the Island side of business, who knows if they want to butt heads with the other two giants for NYC.

Talking with reps, a part of FW Webb's discussion is getting into B2B with the smaller shops which will incur the wrath of AF Supply.

FW Webb took on Tyler pipe and is low balling everyone to gain market share. Charlotte had to reach out and lower prices for the Charlotte guys to compete with them.


Big changes and fights soon.

GGross

Where the Titanic crashes into the iceberg, the little canoe just paddles around it. There will always be a place for both entities, the larger these businesses grow, the less agile they become. Maybe that doesn't hold true in larger markets, but here in the middle-of-nowhere, the customers need a flexible supplier that can work with them, and the big guys aren't able to accommodate that.

Mad Dog_2

First Blackman purged all their excellent counter men, like Gene from Mineola,  then they sold to Ferguson. Tried them twice...Terrible experience.  Not the best & Brightest at the counter.  F.W. Webb is a completely different experience.  They have the massive buying power and corporate structure, but from What I've seen so far in NY is that they hire seasoned pros...and treat you like a Mom & Pop Supply house down on Main Street.  

This is also happening with the small and medium Non-Union & Some Union shops.  Being absorbed...Not good for competition and choice because once they put the mom & pop out, they are the Goliath left standing and you're stuck with em.  Mad Dog 🐕 

EdTheHeaterMan

Mad Dog_2 said:

This is American Capitalism.".The Worst form of Capitalism (to borrow from Churchill) but better than all the rest.'
We all make consumer choices all day long. The Mom & Pop Brick & mortar stores often have higher Overhead & costs.  They also hire local people and atleast 1 or two really smart industry countermen that will have great, practical information for you.  Thats costs more $$$.   You're not going to get that "online."  Who doesn't like a deal?  But what is that costing Small-town USA 🇺🇸??
Empty stores on main Street, "Broken Windows"  Crime, Decline...

We are all free to do what we want with our $$$.  I WILL pay more, For Local Made, American made.  When my main street is a ghost town, it won't be because of me.  Thats the way I feel.  Mad Dog 🐕 

Already happening @Mad Dog_2 Im an old Philadelphia boy and it kills me about the news from last night. Another area that will be closing down waiting for Gentrification.