Aluminum vs. Magnesium

Wellness

One of my neighbors was telling my wife about how she only uses copper and steel cookware, not aluminum out of health concerns about it potentially leaching into food. I'm not tin foil hat kinda guy, but since my DHW heater manufacturer offers both magnesium and aluminum anode rods, I got to wondering if it was worth switching from the longer lasting aluminum rods to the faster deteriorating magnesium rods, give the health concerns out there over aluminum.

ChrisJ

Wellness said:

One of my neighbors was telling my wife about how she only uses copper and steel cookware, not aluminum out of health concerns about it potentially leaching into food. I'm not tin foil hat kinda guy, but since my DHW heater manufacturer offers both magnesium and aluminum anode rods, I got to wondering if it was worth switching from the longer lasting aluminum rods to the faster deteriorating magnesium rods, give the health concerns out there over aluminum.

That's interesting because aluminum is generally safe to cook on while copper is NOT safe to cook on.
There are plated copper pans for cooking, but raw copper isn't considered safe.

That said, copper piping is obviously considered safe to handle water etc. But not cooking.


I'd consider your aluminum anode completely fine and ignore the person cooking in copper. Assuming they actually are cooking on bare copper.


There are concerns over aluminum in antiperspirants. That's above my pay grade but I think it's a valid concern. Unfortunately it seems like the only alternative is to stink.

SweatHog

@ChrisJ Yes. I was imprecise. She said copper-clad cookware, or basically stainless steel pots with a copper bottom to heat up faster. Also, interesting observation about antiperspirants. I had heard about that. Nevertheless since almost everybody uses antiperspirants as well as the majority of cookware is aluminum; I guess this issue is overblown...

ChrisJ

SweatHog said:

@ChrisJ Yes. I was imprecise. She said copper-clad cookware, or basically stainless steel pots with a copper bottom to heat up faster. Also, interesting observation about antiperspirants. I had heard about that. Nevertheless since almost everybody uses antiperspirants as well as the majority of cookware is aluminum; I guess this issue is overblown...

Yeah,
Stainless is certainly considered better than aluminum for cookware.

But I don't think there's much concern with a waterheater.

Also, I'd highly recommend not considering hot water to be "potable." It tends to be rather nasty for consumption for several reasons, especially from a tank heater.

mattmia2

You could replace the anode with a powered anode and eliminate the issue altogether. Make sure you remove all the anodes, some longer life tanks have 2.

Copper pans are tinned to keep the food from reacting with the copper, I don't think it is a health concern, just cosmetic. Unlined copper bowls are the tradition way to whip egg whites because the copper reacts with the whites and stabilizes them.

Stainless pans with copper or aluminum layers are to make the heat even, without the aluminum or copper layer they will get hot spots and burn delicate foods.

ChrisJ

mattmia2 said:

You could replace the anode with a powered anode and eliminate the issue altogether. Make sure you remove all the anodes, some longer life tanks have 2.

Copper pans are tinned to keep the food from reacting with the copper, I don't think it is a health concern, just cosmetic. Unlined copper bowls are the tradition way to whip egg whites because the copper reacts with the whites and stabilizes them.

Stainless pans with copper or aluminum layers are to make the heat even, without the aluminum or copper layer they will get hot spots and burn delicate foods.

It's very much a health concern.
Search for "Cooking on copper" and you'll see many things come up. I assume them to be true just from the amount of sites claiming the same exact thing.

I haven't tested it for my self but apparently it can cause copper to leach into food.

ethicalpaul

Stainless pans with copper or aluminum layers are to make the heat even, without the aluminum or copper layer they will get hot spots and burn delicate foods.

Not if you use the right kind of stove, induction.

ChrisJ

ethicalpaul said:

Stainless pans with copper or aluminum layers are to make the heat even, without the aluminum or copper layer they will get hot spots and burn delicate foods.

Not if you use the right kind of stove, induction.

Resistive electric does the same.

A properly sized gas burner also does very well.

hot_rod

isn't beer and chocolate made in plain copper kettles?

Some of the Pabst kettles at the Brewhouse Hotel in Milwaukee.

mattmia2

hot_rod said:

isn't beer and chocolate made in plain copper kettles?

Some of the Pabst kettles at the Brewhouse Hotel in Milwaukee.

Most candy is or was made in copper kettles.

The heat source is never going to be perfectly even weather it is a series of flames or some sort of resistive element or some sort of magnetic coil nor is the load from the food going to be perfectly even. The conductivity of the pan needs to even it out.

ChrisJ

hot_rod said:

isn't beer and chocolate made in plain copper kettles?

Some of the Pabst kettles at the Brewhouse Hotel in Milwaukee.

From what I can tell the concerns are acidic food causing issues.


I don't know, all I got from looking around the net was "Don't cook food directly on copper"
So I don't.

GGross

hot_rod said:

isn't beer and chocolate made in plain copper kettles?

Some of the Pabst kettles at the Brewhouse Hotel in Milwaukee.

Yeah but I drank too much PBR one time and got sick, I'm blaming it on the copper! 😂

mattmia2

The upshot is a powered anode will solve the metal in the water problem and make the tank last for decades as long as you keep it powered.

mattmia2

GGross said:

Yeah but I drank too much PBR one time and got sick, I'm blaming it on the copper! 😂

I don't think i could get enough pbr down to get sick

Larry Weingarten

Hi @Wellness , This is my pay grade. In the help center see this: https://www.heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/the-danger-of-food-contamination-by-aluminum/ My state EPA has a limit of one ppm of aluminum in potable water. I've measured twice that in static water from a tank with an aluminum anode. In homes with recirculation systems that have a faulty check valve, the lines get plugged with corrosion product from aluminum anodes, so those people could be getting thousands of ppm. When installing new tanks, I always replace the aluminum with magnesium, unless I know the hot water is only for non-potable use, such as a laundry. You can get magnesium pills at the health food store, not aluminum. Aluminum has been implicated in all sorts of neurodegenerative diseases. This research by the WHO: https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/75362/WHO_SDE_WSH_03.04_53_eng.pdf?sequence=1&ua=1 is mixed, but from the perspective of that plumber guy who protects the health of the nation, I'm not going to risk my clients' health because aluminum hasn't been positively proven to cause trouble. This is a case of "guilty until proven innocent". For years the cigarette companies got away with telling us that smoking was good for your health. Apologies for the rant, but I see no need to risk people's health.

Yours, Larry

JUGHNE

How much water is consumed (by people), that comes out of the water heater tank??

Larry Weingarten

Hi @JUGHNE , Really hard to know. Things we do know are that some people fill their pot for cooking with hot water to save time, and that after hot water has been run, later when someone goes to the tap for drinking water, they don't run water for a bit first to get pure cold water. People don't think about older brass faucets and that first use in the morning possibly giving them leaded water either

Yours, Larry

Sal Santamaura

Larry Weingarten said:

...People don't think about older brass faucets and that first use in the morning possibly giving them leaded water...

It's been a couple of years since I replaced the last of those in our house. Still haven't been able to break the habit of running the water for five seconds before filling a cup for drinking.

CLamb

My Dad taught me not to drink hot tap water because the temperature made it more likely to leach things out of the plumbing--especially lead.

Wellness

@JUGHNE

How much water is consumed (by people), that comes out of the water heater tank??

Besides filling pots with hot water to cook or make coffee or tea, I would think people ingest a fair amount of vaporized hot water while taking a shower or even washing their hands. As @Larry Weingarten said, people come in contact with aluminum infused hot water too frequently to not think long and hard about the potential health consequences.

ChrisJ

Wellness said:

@JUGHNE

How much water is consumed (by people), that comes out of the water heater tank??

Besides filling pots with hot water to cook or make coffee or tea, I would think people ingest a fair amount of vaporized hot water while taking a shower or even washing their hands. As @Larry Weingarten said, people come in contact with aluminum infused hot water too frequently to not think long and hard about the potential health consequences.

You're likely breathing in far more radon progeny than you air "aluminum infused hot water". Even outside.

We should try to follow current recommendations and do the best we can for our health, but people often go way too far.


How much aluminum dissolved in the hot water, and hot much hot water are you breathing in?

I feel antiperspirants is a far bigger factor, so if you're using that just completely forget about aluminum anodes and even cookware.

mattmia2

The salts stay behind when the water evaporates, the water vapor does not contain any aluminum that might be in the water. There is a possibility you inhale a bit of mist in the shower.

Jamie Hall

Acidic foods will attack copper. So, however, will any water supply with a pH much less than 7... Most public water supplies are sufficiently basic so that is not a problem, but in some areas it's not at all uncommon for the well water to be well on the acid side. Think pinhole leaks in copper piping...