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Boiler Replacement

Marij
Marij Member Posts: 5
edited August 2023 in Strictly Steam
We are replacing our boiler in the coming months. I asked my installer about recent HH recommendations for installation including using at least two risers, increasing the riser size, and piping a drop header. His reply was that he would follow all manufacturer’s recommendations and not make changes to our near boiler piping. Not sure if I should or how I would push for any of these HH recommendations. Very few steam installers in my area. I would appreciate hearing from the HH community on this topic. 

Comments

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,677
    Pictures of the near boiler piping would help
    Marij
  • Marij
    Marij Member Posts: 5
    Three photos added above.
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,677
    I can’t see the sizes but it looks good from here!

    it still MUST be sized to the new boiler!
    Marij
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,710
    I'm wondering if there is encapsulated asbestos on the old header. If not, I'd try to find a way to use it.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 22,877
    A bit unusual -- I'd bet that the present boiler is a replacement for a previous one. I'd leave the near boiler piping be, just as is, to the extent possible. It would be rather fun to know just what is under the higher "header"... but I wouldn't disturb the insulation if I didn't have to.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Marij
    Marij Member Posts: 5
    Also, a second bid (significantly higher) described two proposals with std and better. The “better” option included “piping upgraded from basic specifications”; dropped header design; cleaning solution/chemical cap; upgraded pressure control and gauges; electronic and float cutoffs; king valves; mud leg blow down capability; removable/cleanable returns; new vents; and viewable skim port. I would love to know if I should include some of these upgrades. Thanks!
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,295
    @Marij if you can afford the upgrades and are planning on staying in the house a while i vote yes to the upgrades
    Mad Dog_2Marij
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 1,335
    Hello @Marij,
    Marij said:

    We are replacing our boiler in the coming months.

    What is wrong with the current boiler ?



    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,087
    Usually both tappings are preferred for production of dry steam and better performance of the system over all . The dryer the steam the better your system will perform and using both tappings almost guarantees your boiler is producing the driest steam it can and the existing velocity out of the boiler will be extremely low ,aside from the risers ,the header size that is also very important . I also see what seems to be a hot water loop . A much better alternative would be to use a Weil McLean w a tankless coil and pipe as a separate closed loop hydronic system in the long run there will be much less issues w mud and sediment and the use of a fairly inexpensive low maintenance wet rotor circulator can be used instead of the correct pump for a open loop which would be a fairly expensive 3 piece brass body circulator which requires some maintenance.Unless your bidding contractor has done a edr on your existing radiator to ensure that the correct size boiler is installed and to verify the existing one was sized properly .
    As for myself only under 120 btu uses one riser and that would only apply top tapping w a min of 3 inch tapping everything above generally are piped using both risers ,as for a drop header I generally will install where it’s serves it purpose and allows me meet the recommended 24 inch header height and or makes it easier to connect to existing mains . Generally real steam guys do the edr and don’t size replacement boiler off the existing it s not the way it’s done at least by myself and the few who I would recommend and there are not many .
    Peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
    Marij
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,087
    The insulation really needs to be removed but from the looks of it it should be repipe with a new header using both tapping . There’s some thing funky going on w the large steam drum and the if any drip off it .
    Peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
    Marij
  • Marij
    Marij Member Posts: 5
    edited August 2023
    Thanks all!

    @109A_5, we noticed dark soot accumulating under the back corner. Burner tubes in that area are rusty and C02 level high. Boiler is 33 years old. 

    @clammy  - 261 calculated EDR (plus hot water loop). The hot water loop heats2-story addition with baseboard and have had to replace pump once or twice in past 25 years or so. Your thoughts very helpful. I am just unsure on how to raise some of these considerations with our installer.
  • Marij
    Marij Member Posts: 5
    Adding new photo showing higher”header” now that old boiler out and iinsulation cut off.
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 1,335
    Hello @Marij,
    The plug at the Red arrow should be removed and piped to the wet return or the Hartford loop so condensate can not puddle in this header. May cause hammer and other issues.




    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
    Mad Dog_2
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,087
    From the looks of it I would repipe the header and not use what’s there and just start over w completely new near boiler piping using both riser and a proper equalizer . I would still suggest a tankless for the baseboard loop .
    Peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
    Mad Dog_2Marij
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,691
    edited August 2023
    I agree...Stockham...they made great Valves for many years. Last used them in the Early 1990s. Still in business...says Made in 'Bama...Maybe..  Mad Dog 🐕 
    Marij