Question from a reporter. Thoughts?

ChrisJ

SlamDunk said:

You know what's worse than no call back?

An excessively high quote hoping customer doesnt bite but if they do, nice profit. I have rejected a few of those.

You've quoted a job agreeing to do it for that price, and then turned it down when they accept it?

SlamDunk

The opposite. I recieved quotes that I knew were too high and rejected them.

Mad Dog_2

A Rat 🐀 Race it is...but like the stealthy rat, we always find a way to survive and prevail.   That contractor likely suffers from what I call, "plumbers guilt."  I have a close friend in the trade I know since we met in 1st Year Apprentice school.  He got.his Masters License about 2 years ahead of me and hung out his own shingle as a mostly 2 man shop.  He did about 6 more years in full time operations than I.  He's a meat 🍖 and potatoes 🥔 plumber, nothing exotic, knows ZERO about heating.  Till this day, he calls me several times a week: "What should I charge for this?  That? " I could never get him to read an article let alone a book ...forget a seminar.. even free ones..unless they give out PLENTY of free stuff AND a ploughmans  lunch 😋 .  The guy is as honest as they come, but this is the way he runs a business... Without sitting down with his P & Ls and the great industry saviors  Frank Blau, Ellen Rohr and Al Levi books, I've done my best to come up with THAT hourly, daily rate he needs to turn on the lights each day.  Atleast, he isn't a low-baller..he DOESN'T have the "plumbers guilt"  That was yrs ago, he STILLS ask me...ahhh Old Friends.  Ha ha 😂 🤣.  Most out there still do and the Carousel 🎠 goes round and round.  You see them at the Counter, out and about, they're struggling not happy, but as long as they get the job away from so and so, let keep plugging along.  I had a 50 year close acquaintance of a my own brother, INDIGNANT!,  that I would not match the lowest bidder on his job, even though I told him this "outfit' is not licensed AND I needed to see the written quotation so we could do an apples to 🍎 apples comparison. "He gave me a verbal! "  he shot back...The highest bidder DID provide a written professional quote, are in business 80 years and actually usually the lowest bidder (except against unlicensed and insured outfits). . I told him I would do the  job for $300 bucks LESS than the legit
 company for old times sake,  brothers friend...Nope, not good enough, I needed to match the lowest 'bidder"...sight unseen.. Long story,  but he challenged EVERYTHING I said, and "knew it all."  I Politely withdraw from the Engagement.  He calls back a few weeks later...you can guess...disaster job.  Good luck!  Not Interested...Mad Dog 🐕 

ChrisJ

@Mad Dog_2 For the love of god.
Please. Paragraphs.

I'm literally begging.

dko

SlamDunk said:

You know what's worse than no call back?

An excessively high quote hoping customer doesnt bite but if they do, nice profit. I have rejected a few of those.

This happens more often when they don't like you and don't want to deal with you as a customer. Or don't want to do the particular job and throw you a high number. They'll deal with it for more money. It's not normal to quote excessively high on a job you want.

DanHolohan

Thanks, Chris. 

SlamDunk

Well, I doubt like has much do do with. More like contractor integrity. A simple, "this job isnt a good fit for us" or even an, "I dont like you" would be the honest thing to do, that I could respect.

But to quote high and, if possible, take the job at an exorbitant price, is thievery. So, yeah, it is a lack of integrity.

ratio

Huh. I don't think it's thievery to offer someone an exorbitant price to do a job that will impact other jobs, for a customer that had already proven to be a headache by insisting I give a price. It's just the cost for me to deal with all the heartache thats going to come with the job.

SlamDunk

Just say No. Customers would appreciate it.

ratio

That's always my first step. And second. & occasionally third. But my the fourth or fifth time of saying "No!!!1!!", what should I do?

Some people only speak dollars.

FStephenMasek

SlamDunk said:

hot_rod said:

hothothot said:

So, that kinda makes a joke of licensing and permitting.

That is true for just about every profession. Face it, licenses are designed to limit competition, and fail to do even that. Even with my hobby, radio collecting and restoration, there are hacks and there are people who strive to do nice work.

SlamDunk

Then, you block their number!

Mad Dog_2

There are certain government bids, maybe prevailing wage? Where once you are awarded the bid you are legally obligated to do the job.  You could always just refuse to start but I believe you could be sued.  I'm sure any lawyer will get u off the hook..for a  few bucks..When I first went out in my own, I was asked to bid on the total repiping of a Town Pool.  I figured,, I'd throw in a bid and see what happened...I was warned that this could happen and that I'd  probably take a beatin because these were specialized contractors that went from town to town doing nothing but pools. They also told me, the suppliers  of all the industrial pool, pipes,  valves,  fittings,  strainers, et cetera were in tight with the contractors (small right knit group).  They'll all bury you,  I was told...Dont bid...Nice huh?? Mad Dog 🐕 

Paul Pollets

This is a great topic. I've watched the industry and its problems be compounded over the years. The decline of vocational programs and lack of skilled mechanics has been predicted for over 25 years. I remember when Frank Blau and George Brazil were discussing these topics back in 1995. The industry has become commodified (like PEX) and many consumers see value in a low price. Since there's not much encouragement for the trades in high school, and not a high value placed on skilled tradesman, the pool gets smaller by the year. The lack of business accumen and sales training also stunts the profits and ability to pay premium wages. Ultimately, there will be fewer qualified mechanics to do the work, and the consumer will have to pay more...if he or she can find anyone to do the work. If the trades were honored like they are in Europe, and there was no stigma for being a blue collar workman, it wouldn't be so precarious. Business training is part of the Euro training, but not in the US. Sad and true.

SlamDunk

I started my career in aviation maintenance- not your typical trade but a trade none-the-less.

It requires training, testing and certification. Aviation has the same woes. I copied this from Aviation Maintenance Magazine, because the author explained it well:


"One factor depressing enrollment in AMTS programs is a widespread and long-standing public bias against “blue collar” jobs. In countries like the United States, decades of societal pressure to “send your kids to college so they can get high-paying positions” has prejudiced some parents and students against skilled careers in the trades — even though such jobs can be equally lucrative and long-lived."- James Careless, May 9,2023 issue.

Just heard on tonite's evening news that the same is true for automotive mechanics.

Mad Dog_2

This is  especially true in the Middle to Upper-Middle Class suburbs.  In the real working 💪 class neighborhoods, getting a Job with Sanitation, Gettin on the Cops, Fire dept, any building trades union was a coup de Grace!  It was 40 yrs ago and still is today but less so because "everyone's gotta go to college!, " you know?  I remember being 20ish, hanging out at Nice Bar dressed the same as my College Friends (Preppie!)... talking to girls. When they learned I wasn't in So and so college, they were like (Valley girlish) : "..so ??? What do you do???  You're a plumber!!!!!!!"  They all laughed scornfully..😆 and blew me off.  It hurt...I ruminated and stewed and then one day it hit me!  I was making more than 75% of their fathers.....6 months later, new girls, same conversation...This time, I pulled my most recent paystub (Union 'A' Journeyman rate...a some OT...didnt hurt)..."You're father make this a week?   The ridicule stopped! Snobs..Mad Dog 🐕 

realliveplumber

I laugh when I see all the comics and jokes about what a plumber charges.

Theres on online that has the housewife looking out the window, and a limo is outside with the door open and a guy getting out. The quote is "the plumbers here"

realliveplumber

FStephenMasek

If you want to help, you could volunteer for an ACE at one or more high schools. I do. https://www.acementor.org/

SlamDunk

@Mad Dog_2 That still happens to me when people ask me what I do. It can be reeeal small talk.

While dating my future wife, well into our relationship when we started kicking the marriage tires, she asked me how much I made because I didn't seem to have any financial concerns. I guess there were other practical reasons for asking.

When I told her, her jaw hit the floor. I made well over three times her income and more than anyone she knows.

Then she says: "When you ask me to marry you, I want a big ring". Just as calmly as she says," the trash needs to be taken out".

DanHolohan

https://heatinghelp.com/dead-men-tales/unsung-heroes/

SlamDunk

Thanks for that Dan. It's as universal as the Irish not pronouncing "th". That was a blast from the past.

DanHolohan

👍