Electric DHW, damage at lower element due to insulation on screw ?

Dave Carpentier

We have an approx 10yr old Bradford 76gal. (there were 6 of us in the house for a brief while)
We have 2 teens, so once in a while we would run out of hot water. Sometimes it seemed illogical, but ya know.. teens.
The prob seemed to be random but getting worse. So, I thought I would ohm each element and maybe pull them out to check buildup etc.
This is what I found in the lower element compartment.



The red wire is melted, its the one that goes up to the upper control.
The element insulator is melted under the screw.
Note the insulation stuck to the black wire copper under the other screw.
I suspect the red wire also was covered in insulation, and it's been arcing since the beginning. The heat finally took it's toll.

Crazy how things can get damaged due to such simple mistakes.
I replaced the element. Tried pulling new wire using the old wires but wont budge. I think pushing a small fish rod between the foam insulation and the glass insulation should give me a path for wires.

I wonder how much my electrical bill will go down after removing this little arc heater ?

hot_rod

Most tanks are foamed with just a small square of fiberglass around the elements, so the wire can be tough to pull out.

kcopp

That wire will not come out of there.
Is it possible to have enough there to wire nut or butt splice and add a section of new wire?
How old is the tank?

pecmsg

Wire nut yes but splice no. 

Dave Carpentier

The red is overheated like that up under the insulation, so nothing good to extend.
It looks fine in the top box though.

@hot_rod - Are you saying, once a few inches past the access hole, it's completely filled with foam ? That could make the task more difficult.. I was hoping it was same foam+glass layer but i guess fully foam makes more sense.

Larry Weingarten

Hi, Yes, It's filled with foam. Pulling a wire through can be done, but it's tricky. I've pulled a bit from each end, back and forth. This can help to break it loose and then you use the existing wire to pull the new one in. Tricky. I've had good luck uncovering the wire back up into the foam insulation and using a wire nut there. A wire nut driver can help with this because of the limited access. It looks like the element sheath got a hole in it and leaked out that way.

If you're going to go to the trouble to do this work, do check/replace the anode/s too!

Yous, Larry

hot_rod

All this on a 10 year old high use heater?? Hmmmm

Sometimes after you flush all the sediment out, the tanks develop a leak

Fingers crossed😗

Dave Carpentier

I did drain it to empty, to change that lower element. It flowed nice, no goop near end. Only an inspection camera could show me if any buildup I guess.
I changed the oem anode to an A420 alum alloy at the 4 year mark and then to a magnesium a year ago or so. The A420 was hardly worn after about 5 years.. had me concerned about the elements, but the lower one came out nice and clean during this recent job. I put the (nearly new) A420 anode back in now. They're better for handling smells, I think.

The upper thermostat is properly shunting power to the lower when it should, but I dunno if that lower tstat is good. Need to power it up and let the water heat, to see if it shuts off when it should.

Do I have too much faith in a Bradford ? Its considered an 8-year warranty (M280R8 model), so it's past that point.. but not too much lol.

HomerJSmith

Buy a water heater kit and replace the lower element and the upper element and the 2 thermostats. Check the breaker in the panel box as to rating. Replace it with a new 30 amp 2-pole breaker.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/EASTMAN-Electric-Water-Heater-Tune-Up-Kit-60178/313606015

realliveplumber

With decent water quality those electric Bradfords last 15 years or more.

We have a few people with 20+

Jamie Hall

I wouldn't count on using the damaged leads at all. You have no way of knowing how far up the wire the insulation is damaged. Unless there is a very good cosmetic reason not ot, however, there's no harm to running the replacement leads outside the tank that I can see. Just abandon the old ones in place. Be sure to use adequate wire, however -- if the breaker is rated at 30 amps, use 10 gauge.

Larry Weingarten

Hi, The A420, aluminum/zinc anode is good for mild cases of odor. I'm concerned that you do not have significant degradation of the rod after five years. That suggests you have rather nice, not very conductive water. An option is to go with a powered anode. This will, nearly all of the time, eliminate odor and give better protection of the tank than a sacrificial anode can do.

Yours, Larry

Dave Carpentier

Ok, so I tried pushing a rod on both sides of the foam. No go at all on the tank side, but managed to get a path thru on the skin side... but the rod veered off course. When I was probing around for the end of rod in the bottom access, I did see the option (as mentioned earlier) to cut back foam enough to find good wire insulation. It stripped nice (tricky to get the tool in there tho), and the copper looked clean. Had just enough wire to turn the marrett so it wasnt acting like a cup in case of condensation or leak.
Monitoring to ensure lower tstat operates properly.

@Larry Weingarten - I do plan on a powered for next swap out. This Bradford has the anode in the hot port, so I have to reroute my pipe to allow for a tee and elbow. Not impossible, just a pain.

Thanks for tips, all.