Any suggestions for vintage tub stem removal?

ChicagoCooperator

I'm trying to get the old stems out and they are not budging - I'm soaking them with WD-40 (since the PB Blaster didn't really want to come of out of the can).

They are old American Standard similar to the replacements in the picture. I don't want to over force them and damage the whole valve.

Suggestions?

mattmia2

Which part are you having trouble with, pulling the handle off of the stem or unscrewing the cartridge from the valve body?

CLamb

I had a similar problem with mine. https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/170230/which-sort-of-wrench-needed-for-recessed-valve I found that after heating it a little with a torch it came out easily.

Mad Dog_2

Leverage..fulcrum...Get a tight fitting crescent or open open on it and slip a 12" long pipe over it. Hit it with a quick jolt.  It should move.  Unless yiu chew up the brass with a poorly fitting wrench, you're not likely to damage the body behind the Wall.  Mad Dog 🐕 

ChicagoCooperator

The cartridge (got a better picture).... Going to let the oil penetrate for a while.

mattmia2

Get a shower valve socket that fits the cartridge body and use a large pipe wrench to turn the socket, you can get a lot more torque with than with a rod through the hole. It looks like you already removed the packing nut but it is a cartridge similar to this where the stem and threaded part of the cartridge come out as one piece:

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Gerber-G0098673-Tub-Shower-Stem-Bonnet-Assembly-Hot-98-673

This is a shower valve socket, you need to get the right size:

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Pasco-5300-PASCO-5-Piece-Shower-Valve-Socket-Wrench-Set

ChicagoCooperator

Thanks, btw, for everybody's help! I have the shower valve set (a cheap one) and the stems are just off slightly - I got a socket wrench which fits better but no motion so far. I replaced the set in the other bathroom with less hassle - this bathroom gets heavier use and the stems have been dripping and need replacement unfortunately.

I'd like to remodel the bathroom anyway - but not this year...

mattmia2

A t handle breaker bar can sometimes work better than a regular bar. Try turning in both directions. I'd throw a drop cloth over the tub so you don't chip it if you drop something or it slips off.

ChicagoCooperator

You mean something like this?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-3-8-in-Drive-x-18-in-Breaker-Bar-H38BB18-06/323222623

I got a 1" deep socket, but you're right, that might work better.

Question: I have a heat gun (paint stripping kind) - would that help since I don't have a torch? How long would I want to 'apply heat'?

And once again, thanks for your tips & suggestions.

mattmia2

I meant this type although you might need some pipe on the handles:
https://www.toolsid.com/williams-tools/1-2-drive-15-length-sliding-style-flat-metal-grip-breaker-bar-mpn-32007.html

A heat gun wouldn't be enough heat.

ChicagoCooperator

Thanks!! I like that!

Oh, so something fun and flammable like this bad boy?

https://www.menards.com/main/tools/torches-soldering-tools/mag-torch-reg-self-light-propane-torch-kit/mt525/p-1571380065594-c-8533.htm

mattmia2

If you use a torch you have to be extremely careful not to start a fire inside the wall. It would be better to heat it from the back if there is an access panel because you can wet the wood down and see what is happening and put a fireproof shield between the torch and the structure but even then I don't recommend either with a structure that is made of old, very dry wood. An acetylene torch would be easier to control but I would just use penetrating oil for a week or 2 then a large pipe or breaker bar.

ChicagoCooperator

Thanks, luckily this isn't a wood frame building - the plumbing wall is a mix of brick and clay tile (no chase, pipes are just in the masonry)..

PC7060

Dealt with same issue two years ago with 100 yo Speakman valves; see below for link the HH thread. 

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/184237/90-year-old-tub-faucet-leaking

mattmia2

PC7060 said:

Dealt with same issue two years ago with 100 yo Speakman valves; see below for link the HH thread. 

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/184237/90-year-old-tub-faucet-leaking#latest

when you say 100 year old i think 1902, not 1925...

Mad Dog_2

We call the Stem Socket Set "Dumbells."
They are ok for most stems, but they aren't the highest quality steel and can slip if you really have a Brutal one.  If you can get a Sears or Snap on Socket to fit, that's great but you're usually dealing with the long stem handle and broach you have to slide past.  Mad Dog  🐕 

jumper

What Mad Dog says. Big automotive socket instead of cow bells. Don't use extender on socket driver. You may gingerly rap a tap tap. I knew an old timer who could safely undo any thing with his manual impact driver. He said that first he twists wrong way???

Larry Weingarten

Hi, I’ve had good luck using a deep well, six point socket for this. Finding the right socket is the hardest part of the job. 😏

Yours, Larry

hot_rod

A deep socket 6 point. Probably get a whole set if US and metrics at Harbor freight for 20 bucks😗

jumper

hot_rod said:

A deep socket 6 point. Probably get a whole set if US and metrics at Harbor freight for 20 bucks😗

Big ones? Need bigger than one inch & DEEP.

reggi

ChicagoCooperator said:

 I got a 1" deep socket, but you're right, that might work better. 

Does the 1" deep socket FIT over the cartridge ?
Is that the correct socket?
If the issue is the tile obstructing a real socket from fitting over the cartridge I would start by  .  ..
1. Clean off the tile face
2. Tape Masking Tape around the plumbing cutout in the tile 
3 . Alingn your socket over the stem
4. Trace whatever doesn't fit in hole with a pencil
5. Get out a Half Round rasp file and use the end to cut away at the tile until the socket fits....or use a Dremel or any drill attachment that's made for tile....
The file gives you better control and less chance of doing any damages..

From your picture it looks tight around the bottom of the cartridge/hole 

HomerJSmith

I wouldn't use PB Blaster. There is a new product that I haven't tried, but the commercial is encouraging.

mattmia2

seafoam deep creep has been around for a long time. aerokroil is another one.

HomerJSmith

I meant to reference Superzilla and not Seafoam.

jumper

I like those metal plates so that I can work on fixture without worrying about tiles. One inch socket is too small methinks.

reggi said:

ChicagoCooperator said:

 I got a 1" deep socket, but you're right, that might work better. 

Does the 1" deep socket FIT over the cartridge ?
Is that the correct socket?
If the issue is the tile obstructing a real socket from fitting over the cartridge I would start by  .  ..
1. Clean off the tile face
2. Tape Masking Tape around the plumbing cutout in the tile 
3 . Alingn your socket over the stem
4. Trace whatever doesn't fit in hole with a pencil
5. Get out a Half Round rasp file and use the end to cut away at the tile until the socket fits....or use a Dremel or any drill attachment that's made for tile....
The file gives you better control and less chance of doing any damages..

From your picture it looks tight around the bottom of the cartridge/hole 

ChicagoCooperator

Thanks everybody - heading to the hardware store shortly. Took yesterday off worrying about it (spent time outside). Will keep you posted on progress.

CLamb

ChicagoCooperator said:

Question: I have a heat gun (paint stripping kind) - would that help since I don't have a torch? How long would I want to 'apply heat'?

I had used Kroil to to no effect. I heated it until the oil began to smoke. However I first wetted down the area and put a nonflammable material around the back and sides. Also have a fire extinguisher handy. I also directed the flame almost parallel to the wall. A heat gun might work.

Intplm.

jumper said:

I like those metal plates so that I can work on fixture without worrying about tiles. One inch socket is too small methinks.

reggi said:

ChicagoCooperator said:

 I got a 1" deep socket, but you're right, that might work better. 

Does the 1" deep socket FIT over the cartridge ?
Is that the correct socket?
If the issue is the tile obstructing a real socket from fitting over the cartridge I would start by  .  ..
1. Clean off the tile face
2. Tape Masking Tape around the plumbing cutout in the tile 
3 . Alingn your socket over the stem
4. Trace whatever doesn't fit in hole with a pencil
5. Get out a Half Round rasp file and use the end to cut away at the tile until the socket fits....or use a Dremel or any drill attachment that's made for tile....
The file gives you better control and less chance of doing any damages..

From your picture it looks tight around the bottom of the cartridge/hole 

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is a great idea.

If you need something with a little more strength to it, a deep socket or a regular socket. If you use a regular socket Let the regular socket slide through the stem. Meaning, don't use the ratchet. Use an adjustable or pipe wrench on the outside of the socket to turn the stem out.